o2manyfish - Skimmer Comparison
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Viggen
New member
Would it be possible to hook all the skimmers up at the same time & let them all skim for a set period of time, like a few months to determine how much stuff they pull out?
Which models of skimmers are being used or did I miss that?
If there is a large variation is what the manufacturers claim the skimmers can skimm possibly instead of dividing it up like basketball tourney you could simply put the smaller skimmers in 1 group & allow the high-end/larger skimmers in another group
Which models of skimmers are being used or did I miss that?
If there is a large variation is what the manufacturers claim the skimmers can skimm possibly instead of dividing it up like basketball tourney you could simply put the smaller skimmers in 1 group & allow the high-end/larger skimmers in another group
crlmn11
New member
Dave,
Since you are already doing all of the work, don't you think it would be interesting to see what you are skimming out from a chemical standpoint? By this I mean measure the dissolved organics, phosphate, nitrate, ammonia, etc. in the skimmate from each of the skimmers. Initially you would obviously have to dilute it to get proper measurements, but over time as the better skimmers work at a lower threshold you could show how things had changed and what they had taken out. However, since your tank conditions might change over time this might not be possible. Just a thought though as your tank's parameters do not change that much relative to most tanks in terms of dissolved organics and such since you do not feed heavily or often. Let me know what you think of this idea. Deltec has a good phosphate test and Salifert has good kits for several of the other parameters.
Since you are already doing all of the work, don't you think it would be interesting to see what you are skimming out from a chemical standpoint? By this I mean measure the dissolved organics, phosphate, nitrate, ammonia, etc. in the skimmate from each of the skimmers. Initially you would obviously have to dilute it to get proper measurements, but over time as the better skimmers work at a lower threshold you could show how things had changed and what they had taken out. However, since your tank conditions might change over time this might not be possible. Just a thought though as your tank's parameters do not change that much relative to most tanks in terms of dissolved organics and such since you do not feed heavily or often. Let me know what you think of this idea. Deltec has a good phosphate test and Salifert has good kits for several of the other parameters.
tony
Well-known member
What an good idea!!!would never thought of it
Lots of good suggestions. I really like crlmn11's suggestion. This could even be done by someone else in the area to relieve Dave from more work on the testing. Heck, If you send me small vials with the skimmate, I will volunteer to test them.
I agree and disagree with a lot of the points here. I agree that putting them all to run at the same time would be the ideal situation, but it s impractical. I also think that rating the skimmer and giving it a "winning" label is wrong. Scientific studies DO NOT prove anything and neither will this test really. They either support or don't support a theory. I would think it is much better to do like Sanjay has been doing for years in his lighting tests. He has stayed completely out of personal judgement on what is the best one, but rather puts out the results and how he got those results for others to make up their minds as to what is best to them.
Along those same lines, I would prefer if this "test" would just describe the results of each round and by what criteria did the skimmers moved to the next round or match up. I can then make up my mind if a little more skimmate is worth the extra $2000 or if the less skimmate is OK so long as it is easy to clean and doesn't use much electricity. As someone said above, what are good factors for someone may not be as important to others.
I can tell you ahead of time I am very eager to see the results. I am planning on getting a Deltec AP1004 in the next few weeks. When I do set it up, I will continue to run my Aerofoamer 848 pushed by an iwaki 100 and see what kind of results I get over the next few weeks. I will test the skimmate of both as suggested above and we'll see at least with those two what happens. If anyone in the area is also willing to throw in another larger skimmer of equal rating, I will be more than happy t run them and post the reslts as well.
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree and disagree with a lot of the points here. I agree that putting them all to run at the same time would be the ideal situation, but it s impractical. I also think that rating the skimmer and giving it a "winning" label is wrong. Scientific studies DO NOT prove anything and neither will this test really. They either support or don't support a theory. I would think it is much better to do like Sanjay has been doing for years in his lighting tests. He has stayed completely out of personal judgement on what is the best one, but rather puts out the results and how he got those results for others to make up their minds as to what is best to them.
Along those same lines, I would prefer if this "test" would just describe the results of each round and by what criteria did the skimmers moved to the next round or match up. I can then make up my mind if a little more skimmate is worth the extra $2000 or if the less skimmate is OK so long as it is easy to clean and doesn't use much electricity. As someone said above, what are good factors for someone may not be as important to others.
I can tell you ahead of time I am very eager to see the results. I am planning on getting a Deltec AP1004 in the next few weeks. When I do set it up, I will continue to run my Aerofoamer 848 pushed by an iwaki 100 and see what kind of results I get over the next few weeks. I will test the skimmate of both as suggested above and we'll see at least with those two what happens. If anyone in the area is also willing to throw in another larger skimmer of equal rating, I will be more than happy t run them and post the reslts as well.
BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
tony
Well-known member
What kind of AquaMedic skimmer you will be testing???
John Brancheau
New member
Dave,
Glad to see this is still going to take place, I too am interested in seeing the results as to which skimmers will pull out the best skimmate, but would also like to see them put in catagories that will explain power consumption and overall efficiency..
I had found that with my two Euros running in the same chamber, one would shut the other down within a couple of days of cleaning...Do you think this will be the final
opinin as to which is best in each catagory?
Thanks, John
Glad to see this is still going to take place, I too am interested in seeing the results as to which skimmers will pull out the best skimmate, but would also like to see them put in catagories that will explain power consumption and overall efficiency..
I had found that with my two Euros running in the same chamber, one would shut the other down within a couple of days of cleaning...Do you think this will be the final
opinin as to which is best in each catagory?
Thanks, John
tony
Well-known member
An ETSS would be a good competitor.lol
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Hey Folks,
Sorry for the delay in getting to read all this... Electrical upgrade at the house today so finally got some lights and lan working .
If I miss a couple of points or questions - They were just too many to try to respond to, and you were not intentionally ignored
1) Invincible - There is a thread in the General Reef Forum called "Full Tank Shots" did you post yet ?
2) Simplicity - While I know this could get very complicated and scientific - Me being a simple lazy person, I am hoping that performance is the overall determination. It is my thought (as hypothetical as it may be) that by matching up the skimmers, once they have a day or two to settle in, the difference in skim production would be obvious (hoping) - if not smoke another cigar and look outside the following day.
It is my intention to put similarily sized skimmers together..... I mean let's face it, the only real winner at the end of all this is going to be the reef community. Hopefully what we find will be educational and valuable for us making our next upgrade decision, and sharing what we find out with people making future decisions.
If the "o2manySkim 1000" kicked the skimming crap out of every other skimmer, that doesn't make it the end all be all skimmer. One thing I have learned from the onset is that most of these "premium" skimmers won't fit within an average under tank configuration - This factor for me would be a huge issue (if I didn't have a yard full of reef.
And regardless how good the "o2manyskim 1000" is if it takes 3 minutes hunched over to release the skime cup and then need 5" of clearance to get it off the skimmer - It's a loser to me.
What would be amazing is if someone talented was able to take all the things we find/learn/discover and build the ultimate skimmer -
From what I have seen so far -- Tips for the new "o2manyskim 2000" would be to use the collection cup release mechanisim of the Deltec, use the Marked controls of the Bubble King - This is so simple why doesn't anyone else make marks where the settings are ? Do not use the plumbing fittings of the Aqua C. Air intakes should be gate valves that are mounted to the skimmer, make adding ozone easier.... and that's with only a couple of the skimmers to play with.
So it is my intention and hope that while their may be no winners, we will learn alot about the skimmers. Just the opportunity to have a couple of people (Madison & Myself at the moment) who get to touch all these skimmers in the same location and conditions to determine how easy or difficult they are to work with. Just changing the skimmer cup on some of these skimmers is such a nuisance I want to get out the sawzall.
Okay that was a big long rant..... Sorry
3) Measuring the Skimmate for analysis -- This is a great idea !!!! Except I hate test kits. I am not sure if packaging the skimmate and trying to ship it is ideal, or if it will affect test results. But any locals that want to be responsible for this - I will collect it and you can sample it.....
4) Weighing the Skimmate - This is something I was intending to do - And weighing it twice - 1 the overall production, and then the weight of perhaps 100ml of skimmate from each skimmer which should show density. Question for those more Scientific that me- What is heavier - water or dissolved organics ?
5) Technical comparisons (ideas from Zephrant) this is a good idea - I don't know how to implement them - I posted earlier about seeking an accurate means of measuring current draw -- I don't know anything about measuring air flow ( Odd for someone who blows so much hot air ) --
6) I never claimed to be a skimmer expert - And in fact I hope by the end of this to not be - I just think I have the perfect test bed for being able to match up skimmers under identical real world circumstances, so if you feel I am missing a major component please keep speaking up.
Also try to remember however, that Madison and I both have careers that have nothing to do with skimmers, fish, or corals. So please take into account this is not a livelihood for either one of us -- Madison / OuinLa is such a big sports wanker - I don't care about sports, we have already seen several times that Madison can't drink like I can - we had to find something stupid to compete about -- Ala Two German Precision (ya right) Pieces of equipment handled by two barbaric and clumsy sterotypical caucasians
Dave B
Sorry for the delay in getting to read all this... Electrical upgrade at the house today so finally got some lights and lan working .
If I miss a couple of points or questions - They were just too many to try to respond to, and you were not intentionally ignored
1) Invincible - There is a thread in the General Reef Forum called "Full Tank Shots" did you post yet ?
2) Simplicity - While I know this could get very complicated and scientific - Me being a simple lazy person, I am hoping that performance is the overall determination. It is my thought (as hypothetical as it may be) that by matching up the skimmers, once they have a day or two to settle in, the difference in skim production would be obvious (hoping) - if not smoke another cigar and look outside the following day.
It is my intention to put similarily sized skimmers together..... I mean let's face it, the only real winner at the end of all this is going to be the reef community. Hopefully what we find will be educational and valuable for us making our next upgrade decision, and sharing what we find out with people making future decisions.
If the "o2manySkim 1000" kicked the skimming crap out of every other skimmer, that doesn't make it the end all be all skimmer. One thing I have learned from the onset is that most of these "premium" skimmers won't fit within an average under tank configuration - This factor for me would be a huge issue (if I didn't have a yard full of reef.
And regardless how good the "o2manyskim 1000" is if it takes 3 minutes hunched over to release the skime cup and then need 5" of clearance to get it off the skimmer - It's a loser to me.
What would be amazing is if someone talented was able to take all the things we find/learn/discover and build the ultimate skimmer -
From what I have seen so far -- Tips for the new "o2manyskim 2000" would be to use the collection cup release mechanisim of the Deltec, use the Marked controls of the Bubble King - This is so simple why doesn't anyone else make marks where the settings are ? Do not use the plumbing fittings of the Aqua C. Air intakes should be gate valves that are mounted to the skimmer, make adding ozone easier.... and that's with only a couple of the skimmers to play with.
So it is my intention and hope that while their may be no winners, we will learn alot about the skimmers. Just the opportunity to have a couple of people (Madison & Myself at the moment) who get to touch all these skimmers in the same location and conditions to determine how easy or difficult they are to work with. Just changing the skimmer cup on some of these skimmers is such a nuisance I want to get out the sawzall.
Okay that was a big long rant..... Sorry
3) Measuring the Skimmate for analysis -- This is a great idea !!!! Except I hate test kits. I am not sure if packaging the skimmate and trying to ship it is ideal, or if it will affect test results. But any locals that want to be responsible for this - I will collect it and you can sample it.....
4) Weighing the Skimmate - This is something I was intending to do - And weighing it twice - 1 the overall production, and then the weight of perhaps 100ml of skimmate from each skimmer which should show density. Question for those more Scientific that me- What is heavier - water or dissolved organics ?
5) Technical comparisons (ideas from Zephrant) this is a good idea - I don't know how to implement them - I posted earlier about seeking an accurate means of measuring current draw -- I don't know anything about measuring air flow ( Odd for someone who blows so much hot air ) --
6) I never claimed to be a skimmer expert - And in fact I hope by the end of this to not be - I just think I have the perfect test bed for being able to match up skimmers under identical real world circumstances, so if you feel I am missing a major component please keep speaking up.
Also try to remember however, that Madison and I both have careers that have nothing to do with skimmers, fish, or corals. So please take into account this is not a livelihood for either one of us -- Madison / OuinLa is such a big sports wanker - I don't care about sports, we have already seen several times that Madison can't drink like I can - we had to find something stupid to compete about -- Ala Two German Precision (ya right) Pieces of equipment handled by two barbaric and clumsy sterotypical caucasians
Dave B
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2004
- Messages
- 109
How about a durability test too? I dont think the sponsored skimmers would like that.
I dont think the sponsored skimmers would like that. rufio173
Well-known member
I just joined this site to keep tabs on this thread. I think it's that important!!!
Allright, I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but I think there should definitely be efforts made to measure air flow, water flow and power consumption.
I think that will help out a lot more than just saying... one skimmer is a top dog...
I think those factors I listed are some of the most important factors in deciding what kind of skimmer that you will be getting.
Also, it would be nice if general prices were posted for each test skimmer... and oh yeah!!! It needs to skim like a beast as well. Hehe.
Peace,
John H.
Allright, I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but I think there should definitely be efforts made to measure air flow, water flow and power consumption.
I think that will help out a lot more than just saying... one skimmer is a top dog...
I think those factors I listed are some of the most important factors in deciding what kind of skimmer that you will be getting.
Also, it would be nice if general prices were posted for each test skimmer... and oh yeah!!! It needs to skim like a beast as well. Hehe.
Peace,
John H.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2004
- Messages
- 109
rufio173 said:I just joined this site to keep tabs on this thread. I think it's that important!!!
Allright, I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but I think there should definitely be efforts made to measure air flow, water flow and power consumption.
John H.
John,
Klaus from Royal Exclusiv offered to send in an air flow tester. Not sure if that was fwd'd over yet. Dave also mentioned the power consumption test too.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Invinc,
Anyone know if the airflow tester can determine which of us is more full of it ?
Show a pic of your tank, and I will take a pic of Madison using the airflow tester in front of my tank.... Come on... You can do... Just push the shutter once
Dave B
Anyone know if the airflow tester can determine which of us is more full of it ?
Show a pic of your tank, and I will take a pic of Madison using the airflow tester in front of my tank.... Come on... You can do... Just push the shutter once
Dave B
tony
Well-known member
Dave were can I find some info about your tanks??
OUinLA
Well-known member
Tony, Dave's website is www.o2manyfish.com I think he has info about his tanks there. His site hasn't been updated in a while but neither has his tanks
madison
madison
Konadog
Member
Dave and Madison, if you don't get an airflow meter from Klaus, I may be able to get one from work for you. I am also checking into an amp meter (my clamp is broken) or something like that for this test.
RedEyeReef
Well-known member
Nice to see all the new faces here on RF. Funning seeing all the low counts by the names of people in the thousands on RC. 7 pages in 2 days, that maybe a Reef Frontiers record.
I can't wait to see all the results. I agree with above that the fairest way to test this is tournament style double elimination. I feel sorry for Dave, having to compile all these great ideas.
I also agree that people buy skimmers because they fit their setup. (That is why Barr Aquatics just build me beckett/needle wheel re-circulating skimmer with 5 of his new twist locks for easy cleaning and assembly to fit, better then any union). Dave may have his own site like Sanjay after this is all done.
Good Luck.
I can't wait to see all the results. I agree with above that the fairest way to test this is tournament style double elimination. I feel sorry for Dave, having to compile all these great ideas.
I also agree that people buy skimmers because they fit their setup. (That is why Barr Aquatics just build me beckett/needle wheel re-circulating skimmer with 5 of his new twist locks for easy cleaning and assembly to fit, better then any union). Dave may have his own site like Sanjay after this is all done.
Good Luck.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Ken,
I have an amp-meter clamp - But some of these skimmers are drawing less than 1/2 a watt. At that kind of level I don't think a 200amp meter is going to be sensitive enough-- If I am wrong about this plese let me know.
Dave B
I have an amp-meter clamp - But some of these skimmers are drawing less than 1/2 a watt. At that kind of level I don't think a 200amp meter is going to be sensitive enough-- If I am wrong about this plese let me know.
Dave B
Zephrant
Engineer
Dave-
I use the air flow meters from Dwyer- I send you a link to them, they are accurate enough for this use I think.
I think the current range you would need is in the 0.1A to 5 amps. You are correct that a 200Amp current meter may not have the resolution needed, unless it auto-ranges and has a low range.
Zeph
I use the air flow meters from Dwyer- I send you a link to them, they are accurate enough for this use I think.
I think the current range you would need is in the 0.1A to 5 amps. You are correct that a 200Amp current meter may not have the resolution needed, unless it auto-ranges and has a low range.
Zeph
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