Ok, I need help now. Please!

[Beckmola24]

This is too much for me..... Anyways I've been searching for alternate ways to add flow to my 90 gallon tank (besides drilling it). It's only 3/8" acrylic and after talking to Brian from IAP about a new tank, he said for long term stability and safety down the road that 1/2" would be better if I'm going to drill it. It's also a factory made tank from Seaclear and I'm just not comfortable with drilling it with so many holes. I will save my pump/oceansmotions and plans for my new tank (180 or 250) which will be ordered for sometime in the fall.

That's the background of my next few questions. My head is spinning here and my husband wants nothing to do with this because he says it's my tank/my decisions.
For flow, I have many options here (as I keep finding out with more and more research) I stumbled over the Tunze wavebox and I think I understand how that works, but this morning I also stumbled over Penductors and Eductors. I can't figure out for the life of me what they are and what they do (besides increase flow) Can someone explain these things to me??

I don't want MaxiJets all over my tank.
Are there alternate solutions to flow here besides what I've mentioned?? I know I could also get 2 Tunze Turbelle streams for my tank.... Maybe I should've just stuck with my nano. I'm getting headaches from trying to plan my 90 out....

I'm lost as to what to do and I need some guidance here.
Thanks to anyone who can offer me some advice.

 

[Ohgee]

I don't want MaxiJets all over my tank.
Are there alternate solutions to flow here besides what I've mentioned?? I know I could also get 2 Tunze Turbelle streams for my tank.... Maybe I should've just stuck with my nano. I'm getting headaches from trying to plan my 90 out....

I'm lost as to what to do and I need some guidance here.
Thanks to anyone who can offer me some advice.

Becky,
Go slow and take your time. This headache is shared by many including myself but Anthony Calfo has helped many with the same problem. I am going to attach a link that has more reading to it than you can imagine about exactly what you are talking about.

Basically it's a closed loop idea without drilling holes and not using powerheads. Many many ideas using differant tanks and ideas. The Only expense is the pump you decide on and alot of cheap PVC Piping.

Hope it helps and just be patient and go slow. The headache will subside

Duane

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520145&

 

[reedman]

I run a closed loop on my 75 gallon that is an up and over the top configuration. I have a glass tank so drilling was giong to be a nightmare, so I chose this method to increase the flow. Works great...never had a problem.

Eductors (penductor is just a different eductor) work through the venturi principle. Basically they take advantage of low pressure areas to increase output. Do a search for penductor on the web and you'll find plenty of info. They only work effectively with high pressure pumps though. The high head pumps. If you use a high volume pump (ala Ampmaster) you will at best see little benefit and at worst burn up the pump.

 

[RockyHeap]

Quote "My head is spinning here and my husband wants nothing to do with this because he says it's my tank/my decisions."...........

Oh geez just put a power head in the corner and bring yourself some piece of mind. They're really not that evil you know.

See, problem solved.

 

[Beckmola24]

I really don't want powerheads in the tank. Powerheads don't solve flow problems throughout the tank. They only solve the problems in the immediate stream of flow. Check out the specs for the Tunze Streams http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_powerheads_pumps_tunze_turbelle_stream_kit.asp?CartId=
I also want more flow than a powerhead can provide so I would need a lot of PH's in the tank to provide me with what I want. Does anyone have anymore ideas that I can read up on?? The Tunze Wavebox is still on my mind. It looks sweet.

 

[piercho]

Wavebox: when you were a kid, you'd get the bathtub water sloshing back and forth to create a big wave in the tub, right? The wavebox uses a Tunze stream to do the same thing. You adjust the on/off cycle time of the stream pump to provide a frequency that rocks the water.

Eductor: An Eductor is a specialized nozzle. At a pressure of about 10 psi (23' head) it will circulate an additional 5 gallons of tank water for every 1 gallon of water pushed through the nozzle. It takes quite a bit of energy to generate the 10 psi of pressure, and the pumps to do it need to be able to handle the head pressure. Let's say you are using an Iwaki 100RLT as a sump return pump to you tank. At 23' head, it will push about 23 GPM of water. So your overflows have to handle at least 23 GPM, wich comes out to about 20" of overflow, I think. The amount of water circulated in the tank however, will be (23GPM X 5) = 115 GPM = 6900 GPH.

Some people use weaker pumps with eductors at a lower psi, and this works to some extent. But don't expect the 5:1 mixing ratio unless you are pushing a high head (10 psi or more). Eductors are fairly large. The main advantage I see in eductors is that you can stimulate a lot of tank flow with a sump return pump with only 1/5 of that flow going over an overflow. For closed loops, I don't see any advantage in eductors because generating the head necessary to make them work consumes about as much energy as just using a low-head, high-flow pump instead.

 

[Scooterman]

I have a Tunze stream with controller, I like what it does, It performs like a pump not ph. I also have a cl over the top because I do have glass, I should of drilled it though in the first place.

 

[wrightme43]

Tunze are great. They really seem to work well. I put the 6200 and a sea swirl on a 150 and the flow is amazing. 5200 gph and 900 gph on a sea swirl. Awesome flow. The sea swirl is cutting back and forth thru the tunze output stream while the tunze is cycling up and down in out put. Lots of whirling eddies and currents. Corals love it. Steve

 

[Beckmola24]

Do you guys think that the wavebox actually eliminates dead spots? If I used that with a turbelle stream and my overflow reaturn would that be enough flow for sps? Another problem I've encountered here is that the tank location is being moved to our family room. I don't have the room there to have it stick out very far from the wall.
If I were to do an over the top CL would I just use one pump and run it through the pvc?

 

[piercho]

I forgot about Penductors. They are a brand name of eductor. They make some models of Penductors that thread into 3/4" fittings that are shorter than typical eductors. Here is a good write-up from KTH sales: http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/hello_salt_water_enthusiasts.htm
I can't really comment on the wavebox, as I've never actually seen one working in person. In videos, it is impressive:
http://www.tunze.com/Interzoo-Neuheiten-2004/Wavebox_animiert_33.gif
http://reef.peterlin.us/movies/TunzeWaveBox2.wmv
http://reef.peterlin.us/movies/TunzeWaveBox.wmv

 

[RockyHeap]

Just a question Becky..........is your tank even wet yet?

You seem to always have questions questions questions, yet never talk about results?

 

[Scooterman]

Do you guys think that the wavebox actually eliminates dead spots?

No, to eliminate dead spots you need to design a system with flow in mind, it takes some tweaking to get rid of dead spots, placement of the moving water is where you learn to do this and observation until it is just right.

If I used that with a turbelle stream and my overflow reaturn would that be enough flow for sps?

Again flow placement by design is key to good enough flow.

Another problem I've encountered here is that the tank location is being moved to our family room. I don't have the room there to have it stick out very far from the wall. If I were to do an over the top CL would I just use one pump and run it through the pvc?

You can run over the top with a 2" pvc loop with one good pump and create several outlets like on a header. It still will require a few inches behind, I have about 3" with my 2" PVC & it is very tight, too tight, allow as much room as you can, you will also need a pump to move water to & from the sump but this could be a submersible pump not a big power house of a pump, just for good steady flow through the sump.

 

[NaH2O]

Just a question Becky..........is your tank even wet yet?

You seem to always have questions questions questions, yet never talk about results?

I think Becky's questions are very important for a number of reasons. First, she is weighing out options about her new set-up before jumping in and creating regrets for later. My tank took a year of planning and another year to get it ready to stock. Not to mention I had purchased a brand new glass tank, only to change my mind later for an acrylic one. I think we will be seeing fine results for Becky's tank, as she has been given some nice advice. Secondly, plumbing and equipment are difficult for some people (equipment especially for me), and learning from those with experience and opinions on equipment is valuable....by asking questions. I didn't have a clue about closed loops, until I had to put one on a tank. Amazing what I have learned by asking, reading, and listening.

 

[Hardtwist]

I agree with Nikki. You cant ask to many questions. I have been planing my set up for two years and still need answeres sometimes. I am learning from all the questions, getting good advice. I plan to start my set-up very soon.


Thanks for bringing this subject up Becky
JIM

 

[RockyHeap]

Not to be a butt head (that can be defined as a noun, or a verb sometimes) but you often also learn much by doing, not just reading and asking....

Sure we all make mistakes, but if you spend all your time planning instead of doing, well then, you'll be a fine planner but not much of an aquarium keeper.

I'd rather do, than plan. Thats all.

Keep up the planning, and I'll keep up the doing.

We only learn by asking, I agree.

 

[Hardtwist]

True, true. But I wasted a lot of money doing two 55s back in the dead coral days of the mid 70s and then I wasted some more money doing a 90 back in the trickle days and gave up for some time. Now that we have all this fine info on the web I think I just may be able to keep from killing everything I try to keep. The money was not the main thing for me it was the heartack of seeing animals that I love going down hill and dieing that did me in.

Its all good.
JIM

 

[Beckmola24]

I so totally agree Jim. It's not at all about the money. I just want to provide the BEST care possible for my fish. That's why I ask so many questions. I read somewhere a funny little saying that I really liked....fish and corals don't choose to be in our tanks. We choose them and it is our responsibility as reefers to find out as much info as possible about thier care and well being. That means that I will go to great lengths to get my tank as perfect as possible for my animals. I am super passionate about animals and I always have been

 

[mojoreef]

Cut her some slack Rocky, each person has thier way of approaching tasks. To be honest I would rather see the questions now then the questions on how to fix it later.


MIke

 

[RockyHeap]

I just made an observation that there are talkers and doer's is all...........

 

[MtnDewMan]

I think I have to ask ... what is Reef Frontiers all about? My answer to that question and the reason Mike and I created Reef Frontiers is to be a place where people can ask any question they want, whether they have a tank already set up or are planning a tank.

I do not want anyone on this board to feel they can't ask questions and be intimidated by others when they do. We have a great community of reefkeepers that step up to the plate every day and answer questions of all levels. Our site is ALL about answering questions whether it be to discuss topics here in the forums, answer questions that other members have, getting your answers from our resource library, or even our coral and fish libraries. Reef Frontiers is ALL about answering questions and helping others.

Please don't be afraid to continue to ask questions here and thanks for letting me re-iterate why Mike and I created this terrific resource.