On a Very Strict Budget

[NuBee]

I am wanting to put together a live rock aquarium out of a 55g tank I aquired relatively cheaply from a relative. Over time I will move up to a full reef system, but I want to get started. I have budgeted enough $$ for a low end skimmer. I will not be able to afford to have very much live rock to start, so I will have to augment bio filtration. (Any Suggestions?)
My local reef shop sells livestock for @ $50/fish. The local Petco has the same fish for @ 15-40. I know the perils of buying from large commercial stores, but I have to get the absolute most out of my $$. Will a UV sterilizer mitigate the risks, and is it worth the investment for the future health of my system.

 

[reedman]

OK. A couple of thoughts here:

1. Don't even think about a reef tank and cheap in the same thought...it's a recipe for dissaster. That's not to say you have to be rich, but cheap just won't work.
2. There is nothing wrong with buying fish from a big box (IMO) as long as they look healthy, are eating, and they fit the tank you have.
3. Adding LR a little at a time will work, but you will probably get mini-cycles each time you add it unless it is fully cured.

A couple of things you can do:

1. wait and put together the tank you want when you have the money to do it right
2. collect items a little at a time as money permits until you have a good setup for fish only. Enjoy the fish only until moeny will allow you to move to a reef tank setup
3. use the time you are saving money up to plan a well thought out reef tank
4. put together a tank good enough to house fish...use minimal, cheap equipment...hope for the best...and expect losses

I don't mean to sound harsh in this, but you need to understand the perils of going cheap.

Finally, low budget and cheap are two different things. You can get used equipment (check the forums and ebay) for a lot less than new and still have quality. Many times there are people that just need to get out of the hobby and sell off everything pretty cheap allowing you to get good equipment for a reasonable price. You just have to be patient and constantly looking because the deals go quick.

Good luck which ever path you take.

 

[Scooterman]

I have to agree with Reedman, I'm in the process of building a new reef set-up, one things I've learned is to pace myself, saving money to buy better equipment, it takes longer but IMO well worth the wait. I wish I could go all out and just buy everything I need or dreamed of having, in my case It won't happen, so I came up with another plan. I decided to start off with some of the bigger cost like tank, pumps, etc. My first plan is to finish my custom stand & eventually get the flow going & eventually getting to the point where I can get some LR & cure it in the very same tank. Eventually I'll save up enough for lighting & all the other parts equipment I need but first saving up for each step is required. If your just getting started out, reef frontiers has a great resource for learning & gathering information.
Welcome BTW, feel free to ask away all the questions you need, making a plan up front will save you money, reading and learning first will be your greatest money saver.

Scott

 

[NuBee]

Thanks for the heads up. I originally wanted to just setup a fish only tank, and graduate up to a reef. Then it occurred to me that I should to at least try to provide a more natural habitat for them, so I thought I could buy as much LR as I could for shelter, but what you are saying that I really don't want to be adding LR peice by piece.

Other than saving for the bulk LR investment am I correct in assuming then that I will need to also wait to invest in a quality skimmer, sump/refug setup as well?

 

[Scooterman]

If you can't buy all the live rock you need then try & get maybe half, fish only is a good way to get started & this will give you time to learn more about reef tanks, it can get very complicated. When you first start out get your basic system running with some Lr but don't rush the fish. Later if you do want to get more Lr set up a rubber maid tub & cycle your new lr there, so you don't have to do another cycle in your main tank.

 

[NuBee]

Thank you for the welcom, and your usefull info. I have read a lot about agrocrete. I have time and not alot of $$, and I also have a 30g that is not used at this time. Would it be worth taking the 6-8 weeks to cure the agrocrete and then cycle it in my 30 before introducing it to my 55?
Also, am I correct in assuming then that I will need to also wait to invest in a quality skimmer, sump/refug setup as well?

 

[reedman]

My personal opinion is no...it's not worth the time/effort to do the agrocrete. Let me offer another lower budget option that I think works better.

Get dead, base rock. It's dried live rock (typically) so it looks like live rock, just no life. This should be realtively cheap, will eventually be live rock and removes the concerns of knowing when the agrocrete is fully cured and safe for the tank. Then you can add just a few pieces of live rock to seed the rest of the tank...sit back and wait for the corlaline to take over.

Here's some examples:
http://www.reeferrocks.com/baserock/index.htm
http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/2176
http://www.mariculturetechnology.com/Rock.htm

Just a few to choose from. Remeber that if it's not "live rock" you don't need fast shipping either so that will save you $$$ when ordering.

 

[NuBee]

That is a very useful option, and one that could save me a lot of money and time waiting to save up for a major LR investment. Much appreciation. Would I need to wait until I see coralline growth before I introduce fish.

 

[Scooterman]

You could convert that 30g tank into a sump also. I like what reed posted, if your budget is that tight that is a good solution, I was able to order Marshall Island base rock & cheap as $1.99 plus standard delivery, not to confuse this with the dead LR which would probably be even cheaper. Once you get enough rock before adding fish give you tank longer time to cycle even though it may cycle out quickly. The reason is to give your tank time to mature biologically. If you want to add fish I'd consider smaller species to start with & give it time to become established.

 

[reedman]

No need to wait for the seeding at all. Fish don't really care. The only thing you have to keep in mind is that rock (non-live rock) does not offer any filtration to the tank until it becomes "live". So you would have to have either increased water changes (my personal preference) or some otehr form of filtration to ensure the water quality stays good.

If you are seriously considering keeping a reef tank I would recommend running the fish only at the same or similar parameters as a reef. This will get you into the habit of watching the salinity, PH, Calcium, and Alk levels that are critical to a reef tanks health. Not necessary, but I think it's a good idea.

Glad I could help. Like Scott said before...keep asking questions...advice is free.

-Reed

That is a very useful option, and one that could save me a lot of money and time waiting to save up for a major LR investment. Much appreciation. Would I need to wait until I see coralline growth until I introduce fish.

 

[MCary]

Like my Daddy told me, we'r not rich enough to buy low quality. Sounds like your situation. If you really have the bug and have to have a SW fish tank, you can start with a canister filter, sand and some salt water and your practically set. You can get by without all the fancy equipment by more maintenance. (more frequent water changes for example) Then save up and buy quality. If your on a limited budget, you don't want to buy a prism skimmer only to throw it away when you finally get a good one.

Do it yourself, whether its rocks or equipment is something best left for the passionate experianced types unless you really feel dedicated. Things go wrong, you get frustrated, abandon the plan and go out and buy what you were trying to build, which ends up increasing the overall price and adding the priceless frustration factor. I do alot of DIY, but I have no life. Don't get me wrong, DIY is great. Just alot of times not the best idea for a new comer.

And agrocrete rocks are nice decoration but will not substitute for LR unless you make them very pourous.

Mike

 

[james734]

Great advice from the others. My .02 cents is to research as much as possible about a item before purchasing. Make sure when you do buy a new peice of hardware (lighting, Filtration etc.) that you'll still be able to use it in a reef setup. Sounds like your on a pretty tight budget and I'd hate to see you spend the money on something that would end up on the shelf once you migrated.

Lord know's I've spent money on a few things that ended up be not being used.

 

[tankrupt]

hey NuBee, sounds like you got the itch,heres a way to scratch it. do a nano tank around 10 gallons, every things easy dont need much and as a bonus you get to develop your skills,use the 30 for a sump,and later when youve got your gear in place woohoo its just like christmas, good luck and good hunting

 

[jsmkmavity]

the only thing about the big cheap fish stores is they move a lot of fish in a hurry and disease goes thru their tanks a lot. dont add any new fish to a new system without quarrantine! this is another use for your spare tank. you can get dead or live rock used for cheap and used equipment like others said. dont buy a prism skimmer. this is everyones first skimmer because we dont know any better and the fish stores are more than happy to sell them and then sell you a good one later! find a good used skimmer now and save money in the long run. if you cant afford it a lot of people give away old prism skimmers and they are better than nothing- but not worth buying new. also check local reefers for tank raised fish. they are usually healthy and inexpensive. i would setup the largest tank you can because it is easier to maintain proper levels in a bigger tank. a big tank doesnt have to have a lot of fish!

 

[NuBee]

You guys have been very helpful. Could I bother one of more of you to give me a basic run down as to what I need to look for in a skimmer also Brand and price range would be great. I think I will heed your advice and slow down, save and make sure I get the most out of my hard earned $$. A lot of my financial constraints lie in having to justify to my spouse the merits of this endeavor. This forum has already turned out to be an excellent investment of my time.

 

[Jiddy]

Im glad you like this site, how'd you come across it? My suggestion to the skimmer question would be, if you want a HOB skimmer go with CPR BakPak or Remora Pro brands, and if you want a in sump skimmer go ASM

 

[NuBee]

Stumbled accross it looking for equipment info.

 

[liveforphysics]

I see all the parts for a very good setup, and for very low money spent.

1. Use the 55gal for the display
2. Make a $5 PVC standpipe overflow
3. Use the 30gal tank as your sump/fuge. Dont waste your time with baffles and things, just let it dump right in. Fuges function better that way with turbulance.
4. Buy a used return pump to transfer water from the sump into the tank, where it overflows back into the 30gal sump. (~$20-25)
5. Buy 4-6 used maxi-jet powerheads (~$20-30 total)
6. Spend $20 on proper bulbs to light the fuge (very important to pick the correct ones)
7. Aquire chaetomorpha macro algae, and stick it in your sump.

Spend the rest of the money you have on a T5 lighting setup with proper reflectors.

The above is the whole recipe used for my tanks. This one is exactly a 55gal with a 30gal fuge/sump. It also uses a 2" deep crushed coral sandbed and the 4 maxi-jets sucking on a $5 undergravel filter.

Dirt cheap setup costs, minimal maintence, minimal electric bill cost, and I dont even know how many corals its rescued from tanks with $$$kimmers and fancy equipment and other foolishness.

IMO, and I have lots of reasons to back it up, the only skimmer I would ever considder useing would be an airstone driven gravity fed type with a massive mixing chamber, and extremely slow flow moveing through it.

 

[NuBee]

Hey I looked at the Remora HOT and it got some real good reviews however he was real down on the Rio brand pumps and suggested a maxijet upgrade. $229 isn't that out of line.

 

[liveforphysics]

If you didn't count the price of the main displays T5 lighting setup, that entire tank (tank, stand, sump, sand, rock, livestock, sump/fuge, pumps etc) doesnt even add up to $229.