Orp

[NaH2O]

I'm sure I'm being redundant, but I wanted to mention again what ORP stands for. Oxidation - Reduction Potential. Oxidizers want to steal electrons....so the atom that loses it's electron is "oxidized". The atom that gains an electron is "reduced". When something is oxidized ---> something is reduced. Stealing electrons from things alters the chemical makeup.....which would destroy them. Now, let me say something about Potential....since this is really what we are measuring when talking about ORP. Potential means the ability to do something. I think of this as "Hey, that new guy you hired sure has a lot of potential"....even though the new guy hasn't done anything ---> he has the ability to do great work. Potential energy for our purpose is measured in millivolts (mv), and tells us the presence of oxidizing and reducing agents. With all of this being said, John, I suspect you have a number of organics in your tank right now, since you are just finishing your cycle. This is why your algae is growing (as new tanks do)...your live rock is getting rid of detritus through bacterial turgor, so your reducers are in a greater number than the oxidizers: You have a lowered reduction Potential (of 275 mv).

 

[DonW]

Exactly! Hopefully all looks good in your tank (happy critters). Now that your orp gave you a basic heads up, you can decide if you need to do something about it. Probably just NTS but you could make your skimmer a bit wetter and deal with emptying the cup twice as often, and watch your orp go up and stabilize quicker.

Don

 

[mojoreef]

ROFL Don your to funny.

Nikki strong post for sure!!!!!!!


Hey Mac I wanted to welcome you to the board, great to ave your input here. I thought I would reply to your comment.

It strikes me as very interesting that you had to go to a barebottom tank to get your levels to a satisfactory place for you and also that it eliminated your nitrates. As I understand it nitrates are a part of the orp?

I am not sure of the reason for going BB, beyond choice but I do understand the results. A dsb is an area or enviroment that is completely skewed to the reducers, Nitrates are a byproducts of a certain kind of reducer (nitrifing bacteria) so not really part of the orp but a biproduct of one of them, which is also food for another group of reducers (denitrifing bacteria). If you were to stick a ORP probe into a DSB is would fall off the charts. As per the elimination of Nitrates that is also understood. Nitrates are one of the biproducts of a reduction process of a nitrogenious compound. these nitrognious compound are detritus/food/waste/organics and so on. If these compounds are removed from the system thier will be no biproducts of them in the tank.


Mike

 

[DonW]

Mike
I made no attempt at humor. I may not use the exact scientific terminology I'm no expert. I also do not quote authors like Theil and Holme-Farley. I post based on my own hands on experience.

Comming from a FO back ground. Waiting for my fish to show signs of stress is just plain crule. We fly them half way around the world to live in our homes, thats stress enough.
As far as ORP is concerned I know from hands on experience that it is usefull in most smaller low budget systems such as mine.
I'm very well aware that with the advent of todays modern reef systems it not as valuable. Most of the people that own aquariums do not have the space or the money to set-up such a system.
Of course with todays high powered huge skimmers alot of equipt has gone by the way-side. Personally my wife would kill me If I put a 3ft $400 stinky skimmer next to my tank in the living room, the MH ballast is bad enough. I dont want to get into the cost of adding the "recomended" quantity of live rock. I dont believe that most people have near the needed rock, myself included.
I also believe in comparing apples to apples your system and Nikki's alike are in no way comparable to those of the average aquarium owner. There is no possible way for my $89 turbofloater could keap a system as clean as a nice preasurized ETS skimmer. Knowing this I have to use whatever means possible to stay ahead of the game.
Personally I have never had to do a huge water change do to the realization that my water quality went to !@#$%^. Although I do not test for contaminants only nutrients. If the nutrients are in check I use orp to make adjustment to the system such as how dry to run the skimmer. I would say that alone is somewhat of a success. Its worked for me for a number of years so I'm sure it would work for other with similar systems.
Right now I'm on the fence concerning ozone. I'm leaning in the ozone direction due to my past success with ozone on a FO system. If used properly its as safe as anything you can get at the pharmacy we call the LFS.
This topic seems to a "DSB type topic" Truely I believe there is no line of right and wrong but what works for the system and its owner.
Now if I could just get the nutrients in check.
Don:razz:

 

[NaH2O]

Don, nice post

I believe there is no line of right and wrong but what works for the system and its owner.

I would also like to add to this statement that it is understanding the way your system functions, so you can make decisions accordingly.



OK...those that know me know my brain doesn't rest until I understand something....that includes while I'm sleeping. So, this morning I thought of another way to describe ORP that might make more sense. I debated about adding it to the discussion because I've already gone over it, but changed my mind incase it helps someone understand ORP, and the battle between oxidizers and reducers a little better.

Here I am....walking along and I want to go into a building. I look over at the building and there is a group of guys (oxidizers). They want to steal my jewelry (electrons). The only problem is they are average size, and I'm 10 feet tall and look like Shrek (reducer). The group of guys has the potential to really hurt me, but I won't go down without a fight. Depending on their number and strength, as well as the number of me (twins, friends, etc) will measure the potential. If they have Superman (ozone for example - a strong oxidizer) in their group, then the potential will increase to their favor. However, I just might have Wonderwoman on my side, too, so the battle would become more even. My side could win and I keep my jewelry, or they may win and steal my jewelry.....but I won't be going down without a fight and neither will they.

 

[Curtswearing]

Excellent Post Nikki!!!

 

[jks1]

I think youve finally lost your mind Nikki.... LOL

 

[NaH2O]

Oh look.....there it is!

Whew! Good thing my mind didn't get too far away

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Don I meant no offence when I posted, I was laughing at the "Exactly". No biggie. I agree with your comments and your logic behind it. When I look at topics like this I like to view it as someone new would, I would hate for someone to rely on orp monitoring as an indicator of water quality. It is but one of so many differing things to keep a watch for. Also by the time orp levels change the problem has already occurred and the tank is just showing the effects of it.
If you use ozone an orp monitor and controller is manditory. For day to day operation you can use the orp monitor as just one of those things you look at to see if thier is something going on it that world. The orp level can be used loosly to inturpit a problem in that world of reducers and oxidizers for sure, but the problem that caused the levels to flux is what must be dealt with.

hope it clears things up a bit on what I was trying to say.


Mike

 

[DonW]

Mike no problem, one thing i've found is cheap orp probes are slow and foul easily. A high quality probe will change quite rapidly. Even the pin point fouls easily with all the calcium additions to our system. No matter what probe is used it should be cleaned once a week and calibrated monthly.

Don