Over Analytical Noob Question....

[Zenoah1439]

Hey All,

I'm new to this forum and also new to saltwater tanks. I used to have fresh water tanks, but got out of the hobby once I graduated college (a while ago...). I think my wife got tired of hearing me talk about how much i always wished i had a breeder tank to set up a salt water aquarium so she bought me a new 40G breeder for our anniversary.

I've since been able to get through the Nitrogen cycle and everything seems to be holding solid now (about 5-6 weeks steady now). The fish that i'd like to keep in the tank are now in and everyone seems happy and healthy. I'd have to say that cycling a saltwater tank proved more difficult than cycling my freshwater. It may have just been my particular setup though, who knows. Anyways, I lost 1 fish, a damsel, in the process and the root of my questions is the desire to not loose any more moving forward.

I've got a mixed sand and small rock base with approximately 20-30lbs of live rock (hard to tell as the store i bought it from sells by size and i didn't have the foresight to weigh them, but there's about 7 large rocks). There's 2 power heads, one 250 GPH and one 750 GPH. Each pointed essentially towards each other and aimed at the front glass (hopefully that makes sense). I can always move the power heads or add more and have found a very good LFS who specializes in hard coral and I will be relying on his input for power head quantity, placement, and direction in the future. He actually directed me here.

Which leads me to the first question (or string of questions). My goal is to have some coral added to the tank in a month or so. Unfortunately, i was using non coral (fish only) salt in the tank up to this point, so I'll be slowly doing the new water changes with coral salt (calcium and all the support nutrients added) to bring the water quality up to acceptable levels for coral over the next 4-6 weeks. I know it's "possible" to do it in larger and faster water changes, or through additives, but i'd rather take it slow. I've got a timer hood with 4 T5 bulbs (2 Actinic and 2 10k), I keep the temperature at about 78F, and also run a carbon filter (aqua clear 50 i think). Should this be all the equipment, and temp setting, needed to add coral once my water quality levels are acceptable to support coral growth? Am i missing any equipment? I'd like to get whatever i need ahead of time so that the fish have time to adjust (i know its not necessary, but seems....respectful to the fish maybe?).

Also, I've got some algae growth, i think due in large part to the recent addition of the actinic and 10k, that the 2 turbo snails don't seems to be able to keep up with anymore. I also have 2 Hermit Crabs, but they are babies currently and i'm not really sure if they would help clear the algae from the sand/rock base. I've heard/read some places that a Lawnmower Blennie is excellent for algae removal, and also heard they don't eat algae at all. Not sure which is true. What do ya'll think? If possible, i'd like not to have a ton more snails if there's something else that can be used to control the algae. Any ideas accepted.

well, i think the fingers have gotten tired of typing, so i'll call it a night at that. Sorry for the long (and overly wordy) post, but its in my nature....

Jim

 

[Sasquatch]

Hi Jim! what is fish only salt? there are salts that are specialized for special needs but salt for fish only "might" be mixed at a lower salinity than for a reef, you buying premxed? 1st new equipment if your are would be an ro/di filter.
2nd would be a good set of test kits, calcium,alkalinity and magnesium
Third would be a good protein skimmer that will help a bit with water condition and the algae
4th? a CAMERA! we want all your pictures lol

 

[user 26995]

Hey Jim,
Welcome to RF.
Sounds Like your doing great so far.
I too would suggest a skimmer and maybe a HOB refugium. If I remember right, your running a HOB filter, not a sump, correct?
AND pics when you are able to post them.

 

[Somethings Fishy]

welcome to RF!!! lets see some pics!

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!! :welcome: Good to have you here.

On the salt, Ive never heard of fish only salt either...What brand is it? Let us know. On the flow, the way you have both powerheads on opposite sides of the tank pointing towards the front center of the tank where they collide is one of the best layouts and a good starting point. Rockwork and coral placement will dictate if your flow needs adjusting. You may need to bump up that flow a bit, but just watch it for now and see if there are any areas lacking flow. A good test is to toss in a pinch of flakes and see where the flow takes it. As for the algae, it's probably not do to the actinics. After a tank has completed the initial cycle where all traces of ammonia and nitrite have dropped off to zero, next in line is nitrates that will come up and aren't as easy to get rid of as the other two. It's usually through tank maturity and the tank finding its balance do these drop off completely. Unfortunately, nitrates are one of the primary food sources for algae growth so more than likely the reason you are having these issues. Everyone goes through them so don't worry. Also, if you aren't using water suitable for aquarium use, then that can add fuel to the fire. A lot of water (mostly tap) contains a lot of nitrates and phosphates both food for algae so hopefully you are either using ro/di water or if tap, it has been tested and found suitable to use. Where your water change is concerned, if you want you can change basically all of it one time. Water doesn't carry much beneficial bacteria to shock a system so you can change it out granted a few important things are in place...Temperature, salinity/specific gravity and ph all match your current tank water. Once you have this then you can change as much as you like. I use to use the opportunity when switching tanks to do a big water change. Good opportunity to get rid of nasty water lol.

Well that's a bit of info to start off with. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zenoah1439]

Hey All,

Thanks for the input so far. Interesting point on the Nitrates Krish. Once my first fish died during the nitrogen cycling I invested in test kits for everything except the Calium test kit as I was instructed that calcium wasn't incredibly important until you start introducing hard coral (hopefully this was good info), but i am looking to get a Calcium tester in the near future. I've alwasy noticed that once everything dropped to 0, the nitrate still shows a tiny bit of color, which is supposedly in acceptable levels, but if algae feeds off Nitrate then that would explain the more recent growth. Thanks for the clarification. For now, i'll just keep it cleaned off the glass and keep an eye on the Nitrate level.

As far as the salt, sorry about the confusion, I probabaly should have clarified a bit more. Upon my visit to the LFS, I was told some salts were "better" than others at adding nutrients to the water to support hard coral growth. I've been using "Instant Ocean Sea Salt" which i've been told doesn't reinforce the needed Calcium for hard coral (and probabaly some other nutrients but i forget exactly what they were). Whereas something like the "Instant Ocean Reef Crystals" or the salt avaialble from Kent (Forget the acctual name) not only adds salinity to the water but includes additional calcium for reefs and a few other benefits. I haven't acctually had my water tested for its preperation for reefs, so maybe the current salt is working just fine. I guess i may have taken the "better for" and processed it as a "Reef vs. Fish salt".So i guess its not really "fish only" salt, but it sounds like its not necessarily ideal for reefs in the long run. Maybe i'm just over thinking the salt (also in my nature to over analyze lol).

Thanks for the advice on the Ro/Di filter. If i did my googling right, it looks like a Ro/Di filter is something that attached to my home water system so that I can get a supply of Distilled water for tank water changes? I have been using straight tap water, but will look into using distilled (either store baught or a system like this) in the future. Thanks for the heads up Sasquatch.

On the filter, you are correct Ipisces, I am not currently running a sump. What are the benfits of a sump vs a standard filter? I'm a little unfamiliar with them so I appologize if that sounds like a noob question. I've seen them on videos (you tube and whatnot) but haven't put in the homework to see what they offer to the tank.

I'll also look into the Protein Skimmer and see if i can get some pics posted in the not so distant future. Thanks again for all the input.

 

[Krish]

Yea, with nitrates you have to be careful as it can fool you. As algae grows, it binds up the available nutrients (nitrates, phosphates etc) in the water so that it can infact grow. When this happens, you may test your water and come up with a zero nitrate reading which will be a false reading in a sense. This is because it is bound up in the algae which is why it is suggested to remove the algae every so often to export these excess nitrates and so forth out of your tank. If the algae happens to die, it will just release everything back into the water. This is where refugiums come in if you've ever heard of them. People will purposely put an algae in a fuge with a light over it and allow it to compete with the other algae in the tank for the excess nutrients. Every week or so, they will trim back the algae exporting the bound up nitrates etc out of the system. This is one way people control nitrates in their tank. Other ways would be allowing your liverock to build up the necessary dentirfying bacteria that will convert/consume it (which comes with tank maturity) or it can be controlled to an extent through regular scheduled water changes.

As for the salt, Instant Ocean has always been the most popular salt brand in this hobby which you can confirm by checking any poll conducted on them. I've always used it and honestly would never change and yes, alot of people do use it for full blown reefs over other salt brands. It is partly because it is one of the most consistant salt brands out there. Reef Crystals is made my IO and is said to have a bit higher level of trace elements in it than the regular Instant Ocean, but not something to necessarily say you need to switch to to use. Most people will supplement in calcium or alk depending on the demands of their tank. This you will only know by testing your water and seeing how much is being consumed. With Reef Crystals, if there isn't much in your tank to consume the calcium and alk etc then you will have really high levels of these which may not be needed. I used Instant Ocean and as I added in more and more corals to my tank and the demand for calcium and alk increased, I dosed my tank with a two part calcium and alk supplement call B-Ionic to put the levels exactly where I wanted them which can only be done by dosing your tank either manually or with some automated doser. A salt mix won't provide the fine tuning you will get by dosing yourself so I wouldn't jump to switch to reef crystals too quickly. You are using a very good salt now and are still in an early stage.

 

[Sasquatch]

tap water was the "final frontier" back in the early days of the hobby, ro/di strips everything out and leaves just pure water, tap water will have chlorine/chlorimine, nitrate,phosphate , iron and what every else is acceptable by government regulation, none of them belong in a reef tanks water.Bottled and LFS premix are an expensive way to go the ro/di pays for itself pretty quick. Also forgot to mention a refractometer for checking salinity best thing you can have.

 

[Krish]

Here is a little write up I did on sumps if you want to take a peek to get an idea of what they are all about. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f124/all-about-sumps-59756/

Also, on the protein skimmer, If you can get one, I would definately invest in one. I personally would never run a tank without one. Amazing what crap it can pulls out of the water. It's amazing!

 

[TJL]

Hey Jim, a BIG :welcome: to Reef Frontiers and this is the perfect site for over analytical people (nearly a prerequisite for Reefkeepers). I take it that it was Kevin who referred you here, he will be an invaluable resource for you in reefkeeping and should feel fortunate to be so close to such a great LFS. Agree with above suggestions for adding a sump/fuge, ro/di unit and quality protien skimmer to your system, will make a huge difference to your success in the hobby. There is alot of great people/reefkeepers in the Spokane area to learn from/share with as well as the SPCDA Reef Society (check them out in the Club Forums).

Cheers, Todd

 

[Zenoah1439]

Hey Krish,

Awesome post on sumps, that really helps out a lot to understand what it does. I would say that for myself I would definitely be interested in one for the ability to hide some of my equipment. My tank sits behind a couch in my living room, so it ends up that all 4 sides are exposed. With all 4 sides exposed, all the equipment hanging off the back looks a little unsightly. Its not too bad now (only thing is the HOB filter), but if i get a protein skimmer it would definitely push me towards a sump. I'l have to do some more reading on it, but thanks for the post.

TJL,

Yes, Kevin is the store owner at the LFS that i've been going to recently. And I would agree, he has been a great person to ask questions and talk too.

All,

Thanks for the input, I'll have to do a little more reading and potentially add a little more equipment over the next few weeks (or maybe paychecks lol).