Overdriving PCs?

[DongShenYin]

I've read on the Hellolights website that it's the ballast that determines how bright the light from the bulb is. So... can I hook up a 96w ballast to a, say, 32w bulb for more light in a smaller space? Or will I just end up with glass shards all over and an electrical fire in my house?

 

[gobie]

YOU WOULD FRY YOUR BALLAST. CONSIDER THE BULB AS SAY A GATE FOR WATER TO FLOW THRU.LETS SAY THAT THE BALLAST IS A PUMP PUSHING THE WATER TRU THE GATE.1 IF THERE IS TOO MUCH RESISTANCE THE PUMP HEATS UP AND FRYS.2 IF THE GATE IS CLOSE TO THE SAME AS THE VOLUME GOING THRU BUT STILL HAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF RESISTANCE YOU SHORTEN THE LIFE OF THE BULB BY 10% FOR EVERY WATT OF RESISTANCE. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOMTHING SMALL FIND A QUAD COMPACT IT IS 18" LONG @96 WATTS YOU CAN FIND THIS AT WWW.MARINEDEPOT.COM ITEMPC1969 FOR 58.95

 

[Illusion]

I think It would be worth a Try.. Many people are Overdriving bulbs.. Many run 40No bulbs at 110w and they last years... I really dont think your ballast is a concern... I think more of a concern is the bulb... If you have a spare bulb hook it up and let it run for 8hrs.. In a safe place Garage patio ect.. check the ballast and bulb after the 8hrs.. The ballast should be hot but you should not smell any Electrical burn... If I had a spare ballast I would try it for you but I dont.. I do have a few spare 55w PCs

James

 

[snobanker]

It won't burn any brighter. 96w is what the ballast is rated for. The concept of putting a lower wattage bulb on a higher wattage (rated) ballast just means the ballast will have less draw and run cooler.

 

[wrightme43]

I agree with Stan. A 60 watt bulb in a socket rated to 100 watts is still a 60 watt bulb. Its not any brighter.

 

[Illusion]

On some ballasts such as the WH ballasts you can overdrive the bulb just by wiring it differently... On a WH5 there is 4 Red wires and 1 yellow wire... For Example... Standard 2x55w wired would be 2 red wires going to each bulb with the Yellow wire split going to both bulbs as well... If you wanted to Overdrive it and push it.. Each wire puts out about 30w... If you hook up 3 wires to one bulb and the yellow wire that would give you the Equivelent of a 96w bulb If I am not mistaken... For smarter ballasts like the Ocecap ballasts its all controlled by the bulb itself as the ballast autodetects... With the exception of the NO bulbs... They run as VHOs on the Icecap ballasts and Function properly and Safely..

James

 

[Stircrazy]

the reason it won't work is the ballast only supplies a current, and will maintain that current level up to the power rating of the ballast. so a PC is made to consume a specific amount of power when supplied its design current (which is the same for PC's) so by putting a larger PC ballast on it will still run a 32 watt PC at 32 watts. in other words you have to increase the current to overdrive the bulbs. try using a VHO ballast on your PC, that should overdrive the sucker.

Steve

 

[DongShenYin]

Unfortunately, I don't have spare parts lying around and I don't want to buy them to experiment with. Why pay for the chance to burn down my house? LOL

 

[Boomer]

To add what Jim pointed out, basically you rewire the fixture so that a two-bulb electronic ballast drives only one bulb and add a second ballast, rewired the same way, to drive the other bulb. The ballasts actually run cooler because they have less load. The bulbs run warmer and don't last as long but overdrivers think the brighter light is worth it.

This is some what different issue with MH (with the exception of Radiums), MV or HPS. Screwing say a 100 W into 250W or 400 W ballast is a no,no. The small W bulbs plasma arch tube gets gets over heated do to the increased current, causing the internal arch tube vapors to rise to high, thus increasing the internal arch tube bulb pressure, often making the bulb explode. And yes the bulb is brighter. If you took any arch bulb lamp, be it HID or LID and ran it direct, you would get run away voltage, as the bulb would draw in so much current the bulb would destroy itself by burning up the cathodes. The reason behind a ballast.

Here is another example on HID lamps

Some may be offering a “50 watt” system. 50 watt HID Xenon bulbs DO NOT YET exist anywhere for sale 50 watt ballasts do exist but are quite rare and are not generally on the market either (we could offer 50 watt ballasts but will not until our 50 watt bulb is ready). Some other suppliers are using standard 35 watt bulbs with a 50 watt ballast (a shortsighted mistake) they overdrive the 35 watt bulb, greatly increasing the likelihood of bulb explosion (overdriving is not covered under warranty). Overdriving cuts the life in half and the light output (brightness) drops off early and significantly with use over this shortened life. This is not the "right" way to do it and not the way we are doing it (like getting a wine to market before its “ready”). We are doing prototype performance testing on a real 50 watt bulb/ballast system as we speak. The output of our 50 watt bulb is 75% greater than the 35 watt model (5,700+ lumens compared to 3,300 lumens for the 35 watt and our light output is sustained) The 50 watt system will be even more efficient, at 114 lumens per watt compared to 94 lumens for the 35 watt system. We should have this product ready within about 6 months also. It will be a 50 watt bulb and a 50 watt ballast both designed for 50 watt operation, with a full warranty. The power consumption will be less than 60 watts total or 4 to 5 amps at 12/14 Volts and 2 to 2.5 amps at 24/28 Volt

I might add that there are even guys that bulb fashlights with overdriven bulbs

 

[Desolas]

Overdriven PC's really don't seem to work well. I've done it with 32W bulbs and a 64W ballast with some success, but the bulbs run much warmer than they do normally, and the whole setup costs more than it does to do the same thing with normal output flourecents. In the end the ballasts failed prematurely (within weeks) when driving a 32W lamp with a 55/64W ballast. I also tried running a 55W bulb with a 55Wx2 ballast, running both of the power leads to just one bulb. The bulb was much brighter, but the bulb was so hot that without a fan it was making the ABS hood soft, despite a metal reflector between it and the bulb.

ODNO works very well however. I've been overdriving normal output bulbs for a little more than a year now, and it's been a huge success. The bulbs don't last as long, but I still get a good 6-10 months out of them. The bulbs aren't nearly as hot as PC bulbs, and the price is much lower all around. I've been using ODNO fixtures over our planted tanks and I plan on building a ODNO fixture for my 29g reef soon.

 

[DongShenYin]

KA-BOOM! Ok, no craziness for me.

 

[Stircrazy]

ODNO works very well however. I've been overdriving normal output bulbs for a little more than a year now, and it's been a huge success. The bulbs don't last as long, but I still get a good 6-10 months out of them. The bulbs aren't nearly as hot as PC bulbs, and the price is much lower all around. I've been using ODNO fixtures over our planted tanks and I plan on building a ODNO fixture for my 29g reef soon.

I was part of the original overdriving thread on RC along with a friend, while it does work like you stated I since then conducted output tests at several levels of overdriving up to 4X. I no longer use overdriven bulbs myself but that is just because they don't deliver the punch you get out of a VHO bulb. the most I got from a 36" NO bulb was approximately 1/2 the out put of a VHO.

Well I shouldn't say I don't use them anymore I do use them for actinic lighting if I can't find VHO at the time. what I do now is run Philip's 03's at VHO current levels and while they don't have the same output as a VHO they do color the tank nice and last close to 1 year. Since I use MH for the power light all my actinic are for is color and the good old twilight/dawn simulation.

that is a good idea about using them on my fresh water planted tank though, it would give me a bit more punch with out having to replace all my bulbs.

Steve

 

[bigb]

Electricity is governed by basic laws of physics, Over driving a fluorescent light, pc or no in theory makes no difference. Let me explain, We will use OHMS law of electricity
OHMS LAW = V over IR VI=P
V=voltage I=amps R=resistance P=watts
A no or vho fluorescent ballast has an output voltage of 550vac. So a 40w ballast has an output of .072amps a 110w ballast has an output of .2 amps. So fluorescent bulbs are rated to run at 550volts A 40watt bulb in good shape should have a resistance of 7,638ohms through the bulb.As the bulb gets old the chemical in the bulb breaks down resistance increases bulb draws less power an old bulb might build up a resistance of 10,000 ohms, using ohms law watts have decreased to 30watts In point watts is the measurement of power CONSUMED As long as the voltage does not change the amout of power consumed by the bulb will not change It does not matter if the ballast has the potential output of 1000watts so long the voltage remans a constant

 

[Stircrazy]

As long as the voltage does not change the amout of power consumed by the bulb will not change It does not matter if the ballast has the potential output of 1000watts so long the voltage remans a constant

and like I said when we overdrive bulbs, be it NO, HO, VHO or PC, we are keeping the voltage constant and the resistance of the bulb remains constant but we ARE increasing the amperage. NO bulbs run on approximately 0.4amp, HO bulbs on 0.8 amp and VHO are 1.2 or 1.5 AMP (can't remember exactly off hand.) so if you run a NO bulb at a current level of 0.8amp you will get an increased output. but keeping in mind that the bulb isn't designed to be optimal at this current level so it will not have the same output as a HO bulb. If you run it at VHO current levels you will get an increase of output that I have measured to be approximately the PAR output of a HO bulb or a little more. I will try dig up my old tests I did from a different board and post them.

Steve

 

[Boomer]

Steve

1.5 AMP (can't remember exactly off hand.)

Yes, 1.5 amps.

A 115 W, 48 " @ 83 V, 165 W, 72 ", @ 124 V and 215 W. 96 @ 161 V

NO, 48 " are .430 A @ 102 V but some are .420 amps @ 104 and 107 V

HO's are at .8 amps but some are @ 1.0 amps

Variations are on the type of start system the lamps have, Preheat, Rapid Start,etc..

so if you run a NO bulb at a current level of 0.8amp you will get an increased output

And even a simple light meter proves this, and no electronics math required

 

[dnjan]

I don't think you can keep the voltage and resistance constant, but still increase the current (amperage). That is V = IR means.

To overdrive, you need a higher voltage. This will increase the current (and the light output)