overflow questions

[little fishes]

I am having a new tank built. 72LX25WX27T with three sides Starfire. I was going to do two off end internal overflows. But I am considering external overflows. I have questions on a few things if anyone can help:

1. On a glass tank with external overflows the top of the back panel is just notched correct? What does that do to the stability of that panel? Would that panel need to be made thicker? Also, can the overflows still be put on the ends or would the panel remain more sound if it were placed in the middle? would I still also be able to drill for a closed loop on that back panel?

2. I am wondering if the starfire glass has very different properties then regular glass such that thicker then 1/2 inch should be used for the side panels? The safty factors for this size of tank are already as low as I would like to go in regular glass so that would make a big difference I think.

If anyone can give some insight it would be appreciatted.

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Krish]

Hmmm...Couldn't say honestly, but Ron (Detri) builds tanks for Aquarium Obsessed (a sponsor here) and I'd talk to him and see if he could give you some advice/feedback. If you don't get the feedback you are looking for soon I'll see if I can get him to pop in here. He's usually online for a bit each day

 

[CarlaW]

I am having a new tank built. 72LX25WX27T with three sides Starfire. I was going to do two off end internal overflows. But I am considering external overflows. I have questions on a few things if anyone can help:

1. On a glass tank with external overflows the top of the back panel is just notched correct? What does that do to the stability of that panel? Would that panel need to be made thicker? Also, can the overflows still be put on the ends or would the panel remain more sound if it were placed in the middle? would I still also be able to drill for a closed loop on that back panel?

2. I am wondering if the starfire glass has very different properties then regular glass such that thicker then 1/2 inch should be used for the side panels? The safty factors for this size of tank are already as low as I would like to go in regular glass so that would make a big difference I think.

If anyone can give some insight it would be appreciatted.

Cheers,
Tracy

Tracy, who is gonna build it for you? If you are like me, have them overbuild it. I figure I'd rather be safe than sorry, especially with external overflows on the back. Of course, I am not the expert here

 

[little fishes]

Thanks Krish! I will shoot him a PM and also see what kind of responses may show up here yet.

Charlie- I was looking at InterAmerican. The last Spokane club meeting was at Johns house and his tank was sweet looking- and they had great quotes too. Our new club in the Palouse (PRAS- Palouse Regional Aquarium Society) is going to do a group order (two for sures, three maybes so far). I just want to make sure I get mine done right so overbuilding may be the thing to do here. How are your tanks doing now? Are you planning to come over for any meetings soon?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Detri]

I am having a new tank built. 72LX25WX27T with three sides Starfire. I was going to do two off end internal overflows. But I am considering external overflows. I have questions on a few things if anyone can help:

1. On a glass tank with external overflows the top of the back panel is just notched correct? What does that do to the stability of that panel? Would that panel need to be made thicker? Also, can the overflows still be put on the ends or would the panel remain more sound if it were placed in the middle? would I still also be able to drill for a closed loop on that back panel?

2. I am wondering if the starfire glass has very different properties then regular glass such that thicker then 1/2 inch should be used for the side panels? The safty factors for this size of tank are already as low as I would like to go in regular glass so that would make a big difference I think.

If anyone can give some insight it would be appreciatted.

Cheers,
Tracy

Hello Tracy,

1. Yes the pane is notched for the overflow. Basically you can put an overflow anywhere you want to on a panel. Although my recommendation is to keep it 2-3" in from the edge. Sometimes glass isn't cut exactly straight. This will help make it look like it is exactly square. Glass tends to have a mind of its own. You are not taking any strength away from the back pane since you are adding an overflow box to the pane of glass. Although, most companies make the overflow pane thicker for overbuilding reasons, as we do. Yes, you can put them on the ends. But, I just want to say. For ease of plumbing it is always easiest to have the overflow on one end. But, that is your choice

2. For your width and height we would use 3/4" or 5/8" glass for all sides. Specially if it is trimless braceless. We build a 72x30x24 often trimless braceless with 3/4". I am not sure what John would recommend. Your height makes a big difference as to what thickness we would use. I would think he would make it with euro. Starfire, Low-Iron, Diamonte and Opti-White are all as strong as or as weak as regular glass. No difference.

 

[little fishes]

Thanks a bunch Ron! The plan for this 72TX25Wx27T tank was 1/2 inch sides with a euro brace and 3/4 inch bottom. would you recommend thicker even with the euro brace? do you know how much this tank would weigh with the thickness of glass you recommend? Thanks again for your time.
Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Detri]

Thanks a bunch Ron! The plan for this 72TX25Wx27T tank was 1/2 inch sides with a euro brace and 3/4 inch bottom. would you recommend thicker even with the euro brace? do you know how much this tank would weigh with the thickness of glass you recommend? Thanks again for your time.
Cheers,
Tracy

I am not trying to sway you from the builder you are in contact with. But, I am not the person to ask these questions. John would be glad to answer that. I know what I would use to build that tank. But, if I say one thing, you call John and he says another, I don't want to contradict the person that signs my pay check . We are always happy to help you with any queries you may have. If you are not 100% sure the company you have chosen is doing the right thing.

My personal opinion is that would work fine. Though we may step up the thickness of glass just to be over cautious. Again John would be the person to ask.

Are any of the panes going to be tempered? If they are you can actually use a much thinner piece of glass for all sides, even the bottom. But, don't let anyone tap the tank with a metal object

 

[CarlaW]

Ron, you can cut the glass and then temper it, correct? I know that is what was done with my 300.

 

[little fishes]

Would anyone be willing to help me work out a flow plan for the tank. Where to drill, what pumps to use, where to point returns and CL outputs, put the overflow, etc.

Hear are the parameters that I would like to work with:
-Starfire 72Lx25Wx27H eurobraced SPS tank
-Sump and refugium under stand
-HSA Skimmer and Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller outside of stand to the left of the tank (the return will go through the chiller so the flow through the sump/ refugium will be from right to left)
-I would like to have two drains, that way there is a backup incase one plugs and I can split the flow so that only ½ goes into the refugium (the refugium drains to the sump and the second drain empties into the sump also):idea:
-I would like a sand bed, couple inches deep

Here are some things that remain to be worked out and I would like input on:
-How should the overflows be constructed, 1 or 2, internal or external (I was leaning toward center or left side external with 2 drains but I am open to any suggestions), size of drains, and size of return pump?
-How should the closed loop be constructed, where should the intake be drilled, how big should it be, what pump should run it? Should the return lines be drilled or over the top, fixed or mobile as with motorized ball valves or sea swirls? Where should the returns point to prevent dead spots?

Here is a list of equipment I have to work with (not that I am overly attached to any of it if someone has for instance a higher flow pump in mind):
-2 x Tunze 6060 Streams
-2 x Iwaki MD 40RXT (1 running the skimmer on my current system, other used to pump premixed water from the basement for water changes)
-Little Giant 3 MDQ SC (currently the return pump)
-Oh yeah, and a 3/4 inch sea swirl with a broken motor I want to check into replacing

SO that is it. If anyone has a cool design similar to this that has worked for them, or ideas of how to make it great, I would love to hear them. Suggestions are great but the reasoning and lodgic behind those suggestions and/or links will help me to learn more…. I am hungry… feed me knowledge!:lol:

Thanks,
Tracy

 

[Detri]

Ron, you can cut the glass and then temper it, correct? I know that is what was done with my 300.

Yes, that is what you "HAVE" to do before it is tempered. Once it is tempered nothing more can be done to that peice.

 

[Detri]

Would anyone be willing to help me work out a flow plan for the tank. Where to drill, what pumps to use, where to point returns and CL outputs, put the overflow, etc.

Hear are the parameters that I would like to work with:
-Starfire 72Lx25Wx27H eurobraced SPS tank
-Sump and refugium under stand
-HSA Skimmer and Aqua Logic 1/3 HP Chiller outside of stand to the left of the tank (the return will go through the chiller so the flow through the sump/ refugium will be from right to left)
-I would like to have two drains, that way there is a backup incase one plugs and I can split the flow so that only ½ goes into the refugium (the refugium drains to the sump and the second drain empties into the sump also):idea:
-I would like a sand bed, couple inches deep

Here are some things that remain to be worked out and I would like input on:
-How should the overflows be constructed, 1 or 2, internal or external (I was leaning toward center or left side external with 2 drains but I am open to any suggestions), size of drains, and size of return pump?
-How should the closed loop be constructed, where should the intake be drilled, how big should it be, what pump should run it? Should the return lines be drilled or over the top, fixed or mobile as with motorized ball valves or sea swirls? Where should the returns point to prevent dead spots?

Here is a list of equipment I have to work with (not that I am overly attached to any of it if someone has for instance a higher flow pump in mind):
-2 x Tunze 6060 Streams
-2 x Iwaki MD 40RXT (1 running the skimmer on my current system, other used to pump premixed water from the basement for water changes)
-Little Giant 3 MDQ SC (currently the return pump)
-Oh yeah, and a 3/4 inch sea swirl with a broken motor I want to check into replacing

SO that is it. If anyone has a cool design similar to this that has worked for them, or ideas of how to make it great, I would love to hear them. Suggestions are great but the reasoning and lodgic behind those suggestions and/or links will help me to learn more…. I am hungry… feed me knowledge!:lol:

Thanks,
Tracy

Tracey,

I was wondering. Are those dimensions what you really want or need? If you went more like 72"x30"x24" you could use 1/2" glass.

I know closed loop is more pretty. It isn't more efficient. Tunze's draw less power and will give more flow. Other than that, the closedloop intake in my opinion should be half way up to upper part of your tank for ease of cleaning the strainer. You can add holes in the euro to accommidate a couple or more closed loop returns, plus, your sump returns if you wish. I like external better only for the reason you get all that really nice real estate.

Where are you veiwing the tank? 3 sides? Room divider? Front and one side? Is it in wall? Or are you going to have a cabinet out from the wall? Are you going to have enough room between the wall and the back of the tank to service the overflow?

 

[CarlaW]

Yes, that is what you "HAVE" to do before it is tempered. Once it is tempered nothing more can be done to that peice.

Thanx, Ron, that is what I kind of remember. The bottom of my 300 is tempered, but after they cut the holes for the sump drains.

 

[little fishes]

Tracey,

I was wondering. Are those dimensions what you really want or need? If you went more like 72"x30"x24" you could use 1/2" glass.

I know closed loop is more pretty. It isn't more efficient. Tunze's draw less power and will give more flow. Other than that, the closedloop intake in my opinion should be half way up to upper part of your tank for ease of cleaning the strainer. You can add holes in the euro to accommidate a couple or more closed loop returns, plus, your sump returns if you wish. I like external better only for the reason you get all that really nice real estate.

Where are you veiwing the tank? 3 sides? Room divider? Front and one side? Is it in wall? Or are you going to have a cabinet out from the wall? Are you going to have enough room between the wall and the back of the tank to service the overflow?

Ron, Thanks for your help! The dimensions are not set in stone however the space I am working with is 91 inches. To the right is a doorway, to the left I would like to leave room for the skimmer (due to height) and chiller(due to heat) outside of the stand. I figure the maximum length that will still leave room for the equipment is 72” and that would mean the skimmer will be shelved above the chiller. For space reasons I do not want the total tank width to be more then 30”. I figured if I did an external overflow it would take about 5” and that is how I got 25” wide. I want to be able to reach the bottom of the tank so 27” is about is deep as I want to go. So 72x25x27 was a maximum unless I do an internal overflow drilled through the bottom and Tunzes instead of closed loop then I could go 30” wide and do the 72x30x24 size:idea: A third option would be to do a 60x24 footprint. If I do this I could use my current maple stand and canopy. Although I think this would be fine, I would want to check with the builder to make sure it would support the extra weight of the glass and that the fact a glass tank puts all of its weight on a small plastic rim would be OK with the stand design too. The tank will only be viewed from the right and front for now but as a graduate student in a rental it is inevitable that I will move and would like to plan for it to be viewed from three sides.

So now that you know I will be moving in the next couple years you are probably wondering why I want to upgrade now- the answer is I didn’t. My current acrylic tank cracked (through the euro brace and started to travel) and is being held by 2x4s and bar clamps All the inhabitants are doing well but it looks just terrible- not the show piece it is meant to be:doubt: You have probably figured out by now that I do not have access from behind so all overflows will need to be serviced from other angles.

If you have any ideas, based on this information or not, please feel free to share!

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Detri]

Ok great,

Now, I have better idea of what you are looking at and your restrictions. This is what I recommend. Remember this is just my opinion.

I am not huge fan of height. I am not a short person (6.0'), my tank is 26" high. I have a hard time getting to the bottom at that height. What I do like though is tank width. The deeper the tank looks front to back, the more viewing options you have.

That said, if you go 72"x30"x24" with an internal overflow, in the center along the back. You can plumb your returns through the overflow as well. You will have more real estate for aquascaping, you will end up with as little as 25" in the area the overflow is in, and meet lesser light requirements (250w with good reflectors as apposed to 400w) for SPS. As Sanjay has said the reflector can make or break your lighting system.

Or,

You can go 72"x30"x24" with an external overflow on one of the 30" ends. Make 3 sides Starfire still and end up with a nice little room divider or peninsula tank when you move. The total tank length can be as little as 77 or 78" long. Plumb the returns through the overflow still and add a closed loop putting all your closed loop returns through your euro brace. Running the plumbing up either side of the end overflow to run across the top of the tank.

 

[Detri]

I have some pics of a recent internal 72"x30"x24" tank we did....actually it is shipping out tomorrow.

I'll see if I can dig up an external overflow pic for you later.

 

[little fishes]

Ron, Thanks for the advice and tips- keep it coming

I love the idea of the peninsula tank to be able to put stuff on both sides for viewing and it has got me thinking about future possibilities. For now however I think I would like to stick with the long side against the wall type since no matter where I live I should be able to find a wall to put it against.

Thanks for posting picks of that tank, it actually helped me to think of some questions. Can the overflow have a notched top? How would that be achieved? (acrylic?) The space between the overflow and the eurobrace looks small, can you reach in the overflow comfortably to service it? Would I be able to drill the bottom inside the overflow for two drains and a return? Would it need to be tempered? Do you know how much that tank weighed?

If I did 30” wide that would exclude a CL due to the extra space still required behind the tank. What would you recommend for flow both in terms of pumps and placement on a center overflow tank like that pictured to avoid dead spots? Would you suggest making it smaller to accommodate space for a CL? I am not necessarily stuck on a closed loop I just want to avoid dead spots where detritus can settle

Thanks again
Tracy

 

[little fishes]

I found a good design for a closed loop that seems to have good coverage posted by Mojoreef here http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8922&page=8 in posts #119, 120, and 121.
It would require leaving some space behind the tank, drilling holes in the eurobrace so that it would not stick out so far, and a lot of PVC in the tank. I am not sure how I feel about all that PVC in the tank. What do you think? Would black PVC against a black background be very visable? What kind of flow rate would you have to have to make that many outputs have a decent flow rate? Could it be done without the recommended ball valve switching the current? (I like the idea but I don’t know about buying a tank, pump, and ball valve all at once) Would a bunch of Tunzes just be better?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Detri]

No problem, I am always glad to help.

For the overflow, we use egg crate so no fish can get into the overflow. As for drilling the bottom. the longer the overflow the more holes you can get into it. That tank there has 2x1.5" Durso's and 2x1" returns in the bottom that will come over the top of the overflow glass. If you made the overflow longer you could actually but your closed loop intake in there and bring the pipe back up through the overflow and plumb the returns around on the euro brace. The space in there is big enough for me to clean the inside of the overflow. I doubt your forearms are as big as mine.

In my high opinion, even with a closed loop it is hard to achieve no dead spots without 1 or 2 power heads.