OverFlow & Sump Return question

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SmileyFace1995

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Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
193
Location
Puyallup,Wa
So im planning on installing a overflow&sump on my 44 or 50g acrylic tank.
Idk which overflow i should get i currently have
http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/overflowbox200gallondualbyeshopps.aspx
the rated for 1,000GPH max flow
and i have a 20g sump and i am wondering how much my return pump has to be rated GPH wise for it to work.... im thinking of also putting a skimmer in there thankyou :)

Sump
1012091620.jpg


And Overflow
1012091620a.jpg
 
You're looking at things completely backwards... What is the GPH / processing capacity of your skimmer? There's no reason to send more water through a small sump like that on a small tank if your skimmer isn't even going to be able to process it all. Don't use your sump return to make up for lack of water flow in the tank from closed loops / powerheads. In regards to the overflow box / return pump specifically: You can have too large an overflow box gallon per hour capacity in relation to your return pump without any real issues (it'll only flow as much water as the pump can sent through it) but if you get too large a pump you'll have a guaranteed flood. If I was you and using one of those siphon-based overflow tubes I would use a very small return pump. At 10x flow through your sump (which might even be too much since it's a small trickle filter and I don't see your skimmer in it...) you only want 500 gph coming from your return, and your existing siphon box is probably more than adequate for that purpose as long as you keep it clean (clear overflow tubes grow algae and clog QUICKLY!).

Ideally? Toss the trickle filter / bio ball chamber nitrate factory and turn the thing into a normal sump if at all possible. Put your skimmer, heater, etc down there to get it out of the the main tank, and don't send more than 10x your total SUMP volume (NOT 10x tank volume! If it's a 20 gallon size sump with only 10 gallons of water in it, then 100-150 gallon per hour maximum through it) or you risk having a bunch of problems with microbubbles unless you put in bubble traps before the return pump. You can probably push it to 20x SUMP volume if you really want to for some reason, but again you risk having a bunch of microbubbles everywhere depending on how you have things set up.
 
You're looking at things completely backwards... What is the GPH / processing capacity of your skimmer? There's no reason to send more water through a small sump like that on a small tank if your skimmer isn't even going to be able to process it all. Don't use your sump return to make up for lack of water flow in the tank from closed loops / powerheads. In regards to the overflow box / return pump specifically: You can have too large an overflow box gallon per hour capacity in relation to your return pump without any real issues (it'll only flow as much water as the pump can sent through it) but if you get too large a pump you'll have a guaranteed flood. If I was you and using one of those siphon-based overflow tubes I would use a very small return pump. At 10x flow through your sump (which might even be too much since it's a small trickle filter and I don't see your skimmer in it...) you only want 500 gph coming from your return, and your existing siphon box is probably more than adequate for that purpose as long as you keep it clean (clear overflow tubes grow algae and clog QUICKLY!).

Ideally? Toss the trickle filter / bio ball chamber nitrate factory and turn the thing into a normal sump if at all possible. Put your skimmer, heater, etc down there to get it out of the the main tank, and don't send more than 10x your total SUMP volume (NOT 10x tank volume! If it's a 20 gallon size sump with only 10 gallons of water in it, then 100-150 gallon per hour maximum through it) or you risk having a bunch of problems with microbubbles unless you put in bubble traps before the return pump. You can probably push it to 20x SUMP volume if you really want to for some reason, but again you risk having a bunch of microbubbles everywhere depending on how you have things set up.

so a 1000gph overflow will work with a 200gph pump?
 
Yes and in my experience, a 500 gph pump or a Mag 5 pump would be adequate. Some people like high GPH. I prefer around 400 to 500 gph. Its strong enough for a good turnover without creating micro bubbles.

With regards to overflow. Maybe a drilled tank???? well, if thats not possible then I will go with the first choice you have, the ones with U-Tubes. Less chance to have bubbles trapped inside the tube compared to the your second choice.
 
so a 1000gph overflow will work with a 200gph pump?

Dont get too little gph either. Figure in how high the pump is pumping the water. The gph gets lower the higher it has to pump and if the pump is not strong enough, it wont be able to get the water back up to your tank. I am using the Eheim 1260 Hobby Pump. It is rated at 634 gph. I am using it in a 20 gal sump with an overflow box in my tank.
 
If you get a larger return pump and decide it's too much flow, you can put a ball valve on the return line to throttle the flow.
 
If you get a larger return pump and decide it's too much flow, you can put a ball valve on the return line to throttle the flow.

You can also do what I did, is put a T in the return line with a ball valve in the line coming off the main return line. If the return gph is too high you can open the ball valve and redirect some of the flow back into your sump or a refugium if you set one up.
 
You can also do what I did, is put a T in the return line with a ball valve in the line coming off the main return line. If the return gph is too high you can open the ball valve and redirect some of the flow back into your sump or a refugium if you set one up.

yeah thats what i was planning on... but first i gotta buy a new sump or make one
because mine doesnt even have enough for a PS and Pump... i want a PS,&Refugium... :D so ima probably make one.
 
yeah thats what i was planning on... but first i gotta buy a new sump or make one
because mine doesnt even have enough for a PS and Pump... i want a PS,&Refugium... :D so ima probably make one.

Good idea! I'm all for making your own sump. All you need is a decent glass aquarium and have a glass store cut the dividers for you. Should cost around $20-25 for the dividers.
 
I would take one of those u tubes out. There is really no need for that much flow throughput for a 40g tank.

Infact there really isn't a need for more flow throughput from the sump/return than 3-5 times the tank volume.

Dont confuse sump throughput with in tank flow. Intank flow you'll want 30X tank volume or more whereas sump through should ideally be 3-5 times.
 
Although I only have one tube in my overflow box, they recommend two just incase one of them loses its siphon. Having two they will still only flow as fast as the return pump gph.
 
Well... You're right that it will only drain as fast as the return pump BUT...
If your return pump is pumping far less than what the overflow tubes are rated for, eventually you will have enough air bubbles built up inside at the top of the U that it could cause a siphon break. The key match the return rate as closely to the overflow as possible with the overflow being slightly ahead. The faster the water is siphoned through the utubes the better to push those unwanted air bubbles all the way through and not just accumulate on the top fo the U.

I hope that made sense.
 
I understand it.
I hope Smileyface1995 is following this.

I have never had an issue with my one overflow tube getting clogged or breaking a siphon.
 
but i dont want the flow running too fast through the sump/refugium
i think im going to do the
PS/Return/Refugium,
but how do u get 2 bulkheads to drain into it..?? or can i make only 1 drain into it cause i really dont wanna deal with 2 tubes in 2 places of the sump...
i was planning on having one, and having it T into the refugium with a Ballvalve/gatevalve, and then having like roughly %25 of the water from the overflow going into the refugium and the rest into the Protein skimmer section, and maybe even having a t in the return so that u can limit the return ,
 
Remember K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Super
Simple

In a 40 to 55 gallon tank the MAX return pump would be 500 GPH. You have a very small sump so I would make sure you used a skimmer rated at 80 to 90 Gallons ASM Mini-G would work great for you and it allows you to uypgrade to a 75 gallon tank without issue.

250 to 300 GPH would be idea. The longer the water is in the sump for your skimmer to work with it the better without having the water just sit there.

Also remember head loss - Depending on the pump you loose GPH the higher you go. I read someone said Mag 5 I would stick with that. If it turns out to be too much you can add a ball valve in the sump so the water will just recur in the sump giving your skimmer more time to skim the water.

Just do not throtle it so much that nothing is returning to the tank.

Just keep it simple on the smaller tanks and you will be fine.
 
If you only want one tube, I would think that all you would have to do is just plug one of the bulkheads. You will have an estra tube to use when you pull the other one to clean it. You should be able to find something at home depot that will screw onto it.
 
Remember K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Super
Simple

In a 40 to 55 gallon tank the MAX return pump would be 500 GPH. You have a very small sump so I would make sure you used a skimmer rated at 80 to 90 Gallons ASM Mini-G would work great for you and it allows you to uypgrade to a 75 gallon tank without issue.

250 to 300 GPH would be idea. The longer the water is in the sump for your skimmer to work with it the better without having the water just sit there.

Also remember head loss - Depending on the pump you loose GPH the higher you go. I read someone said Mag 5 I would stick with that. If it turns out to be too much you can add a ball valve in the sump so the water will just recur in the sump giving your skimmer more time to skim the water.

Just do not throtle it so much that nothing is returning to the tank.

Just keep it simple on the smaller tanks and you will be fine.

i was looking at the MAG6A would that work?
 
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