Ozone????

[CJG]

I'm in the process of of setting up a re-filtering system for my old tank water. I go through very large quantities of saltwater a week and want to start re-using it to save money and tap water. I would like to incorporate ozone to that re-filtering process. I was hoping and wondering if anyone here could fill me in on what ozone is?
What it does?
Where I can find it?
How to hook it up?
How it helps, etc etc etc?

A buddy biologist of mine recommended it to me, but I thought I'd ask you all as well. The more input the better

Thanks

 

[DonW]

I'm in the process of of setting up a re-filtering system for my old tank water. I go through very large quantities of saltwater a week and want to start re-using it to save money and tap water. I would like to incorporate ozone to that re-filtering process. I was hoping and wondering if anyone here could fill me in on what ozone is?
What it does?
Where I can find it?
How to hook it up?
How it helps, etc etc etc?

A buddy biologist of mine recommended it to me, but I thought I'd ask you all as well. The more input the better

Thanks

Ive spent alot of time and money attemptng to figure out how to refilter system water to make it reusable. Everything from low micron and chemical filtration to dialisys. For the most part it was a waste and cost much more that just making water.
03 is ozone, its an oxidizer. Hooking it up will depend entirly on how you want to begin the refiltering process. Enaly unit are the most cost effective and can be had on ebay. You will need a large unit for refiltering much larger than you would use for aquarium application.
You can semi clean your tank water but it will not be new and there are quite a few step that have to be taken so that it doesnt turn out worse than what you started with.

Don

 

[CJG]

So in your experience you would not recommend it, correct?

 

[busdriver]

They use it in the UK on some peoples reefs. not to reuse the water, but to make it super clean. Like DonW said, it is 03 or three Oxygens instead of two that we normally breath. often people use a UV after the ozone to turn it back into O2. some 03 is ok/maybe good. too much can hurt you and your reef/ocean...
if i remember right, you mostly do sharks, AKA messy eaters. and not so much coral. in my unprofessional opinion... you might be able to make it work. i would guess loads of algae, and maybe bio balls if you need them. the bio ball to make the NO3 and the algae to absorb the NO3. one can get 4' (not just under 4' like we use on our 4' tanks) lights to grow plants at home depot for cheap.
OR you could make a "denitryfier" using vodka and loooow O2.... I have an article in my Marine World magaizne.
My friend Mark Goodchild on reefsuk.org made one for his 600 US gal system...
I hope this helps!-)
Stephen

 

[aquariumdebacle]

To re-filter water you can just let it age. Let it sit in the dark covered and the nitrate will disappear. That is not the problem with used water, it has a lack of essential elements. You will need to add calcium and bring up the alaklinity levels. This maybe cost prohibitive.

You can use ozone in the display system but it will need to be in a sump with the effluent filtered by charcoal to prevent it escaping into the main display. If you use it in any kind of quantity (more than 25mg/400 liters) you must use a controller (orp) to regulate the amount. It is an oxidizer so consider it as though you were adding bleach to the system. It destroys the nitrate ion as well as other molecules/ions it comes into contact. Should be used in a protein skimmer that is ozone resistant.

 

[DonW]

So in your experience you would not recommend it, correct?

I would recommend 03 but it depends on what you want to accomplish.

You could age the water as mentioned. This will not clean the water, its essentially the same as having a spare fishless aquarium. It will cycle and process the water just like any other aquarium.

You could add o3 to your existing setup but its not a miracle cure and you will still need to do your water changes with new water. It will make your water very clear but I assume your after more.

Instead of removing water, cleaning and reusing it I would suggest slow processing the water you have. How you do this depends alot on your set up and what you want to accomplish. In this process I would include 03 and a denitrification set up which does not need to be a fancy reactor. Just a pvc tube filled with bioballs will do the same thing. I'm sure we can come up with a good system with a little more info.

Don

 

[CJG]

Thanks so far guys. What I want to do is remove 200 gallons from my tank, and replace it with clean saltwater. With that 200 gallons of water I would filter it through a series of filters for approx 1 to 2 weeks. At this point I would then do a water change and remove 200 gallons from my tank and replace it with the 200 I just filtered and so on. This is on a shark tank so the water does not have to be perfect. It's not like I'm trying to filter water for a reef tank or anything, just fish only.

 

[morgan]

ozone is good at killing everything at work we run ozone on everytank but only for about 3 hours at a time connect it to the skimmer air intake and away u go just have a bag of carbon at the exit point of the skimmer to remove excess o3 which in high amounts will kill fish, but i guess as apart of the filter tank it would be ok to run for longer times if u have an orp monitor if not then just run it for 3 hours a day for your 2 week period also u will probly have to incoperate a wet dry filter, a nitrate reactor and a phosphate reactor or phosphate bags all so filtering all the water through 1 micron filter bags with carbon will help to i think what ur trying to do will be possible
i rember seeing a few tanks a couple of years back that had a speical filter system and clamied that these reef tanks hadnt had water cahnges in 5 years plus

 

[CJG]

Should I hook the ozone up to the skimmer, or a seperate reactor? Can you guys recommend a good ozone unit thats not super money?

 

[morgan]

protien skimmer deffiently u can have it go through a bubble counter but that wont last long because the ozone will eat the plastic u could just use a 1 way valve
all the ones i use are maybe by ZOK ?? but might be an aussie company some one said ebay so i would start there and maybe the equipment for sale page might help

 

[DonW]

If your trying to refilter the set-up will not work very well if you set it up like an aquarium. Just micron filter the water, run 24/7 through a denitrifier tube and blow 03 through and air stone right into the water. Before reusing the water push it through a carbon filter.

Don

 

[apollothesun]

if you can use a seperate skimmer, aside from your display skimmer, use a red sea berlin skimmer. these skimmers are ozone friendly. have it hooked up after your display skimmer. you will get more effieciency of the ozone if you hook it up to a skimmer. sometimes you can find them used which works just fine. i got this idea from plack

 

[Boomer]

CJG

These will answer most of you questions from your first post

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 1: Chemistry and Biochemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

Some notes;

It destroys the nitrate ion

I has no effect on Nitrate. It actually destroys Ammonia to a degree and converts NO2- to NO3-. Nitrate is in a very stable state where it can not be oxidized anymore by Ozone or reduced by Ozone. There is no means where N can leave O3 form the Nitrate ion with Ozone.


ozone is good at killing everything

Only if it is high enough, contact time 30 sec or more and ORP @ 700 mV or higher. At ~ 300 -400 mV you will get a reduction of bacteria in the water column by about 10%. It will have zero effect on any parasites. 30 secs or more is where 100 % is killed if at 800 mV.

have a bag of carbon at the exit point of the skimmer to remove excess O3 which in high amounts will kill fish

In seawater rarely is this the case as the half-life of Ozone is only a few seconds. Most of what happens is the Ozone converts Bromide to Bromine or Bromate ( from a second ozidation). It is these that the carbon is used to remove form the system. It is also these that can kill fish or to high of a REDOX. In system without Bromide then you can have excessive Ozone. If the Ozone is to high then the Chloride ion gets converted to Chlorine, which can also kill fish, where carbon will also convert the Chlorine back to Chloride, just like the carbon converts the Bromine back to Bromide. If there is any unbound Ammonia or certain Ammonia base moelcules then there may also be the the conversion to some Broamine. In unbromided systems, such as some public aquariums where there is no Bormide in the sea mix, then degassing towers are use. These are really nothing more than big trickle filters. As ozonated water comes down high velocity / vol air its blown up, which drives the Ozone out of the seawater and into the air. The air is then vented to the outside.

you will get more efficiency of the ozone if you hook it up to a skimmer.

You will get less if it is hooked up to a skimmer vs. a Ozone reactor. Skimmers are all venting Ozone out through the skimmer cut, where as reactor do not but drive the Ozone into the water under pressure in a sealed cylinder.

Here are some examples of reactors and the article posted above has very cost effect reactor made out of coiled tubing.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38219&highlight=reactors


As far as a means of reusing water and what to do with it follow Don's advice. He has spent allot of time at this and know all the ins and outs.