Phospate/Carbon Reactor Question

[reeffan]

Hello everyone, i've been ask by few members to build a phospate/carbon reactor lately to use on their tanks. Though i have not use one, i have few question about this unit. Im not a chemist or expert but i know someone here would be able to help out and give us some good information. Well, here's my questions:

1. What's the purpose or benefits of phospate or carbon reactor in our tank?
2. How does it works?
3. How will affect our water chemistry and our livestocks in our tank?
4. How much phosphate or carbon do i need to use and how long?
5. How much waterflow should i use into the chamber?

Any suggestion or coment will be appreciated....

reefan

 

[ROWAUSA]

from someone who puts a fluidised bed reactor on almost every systems I build, find a Deltec FR-509 and figure out how to make it for less then $199 and you will have a winner.

 

[DonW]

from someone who puts a fluidised bed reactor on almost every systems I build, find a Deltec FR-509 and figure out how to make it for less then $199 and you will have a winner.

Is the FR-509 made from 1/4 cast acrylic?

Don

 

[ROWAUSA]

I am not sure what the material is. If you can tell me the difference between ceel cast and extruded, maybe I could tell you what they use.

 

[reeffan]

from someone who puts a fluidised bed reactor on almost every systems I build, find a Deltec FR-509 and figure out how to make it for less then $199 and you will have a winner.

ROWAUSA, the one that i build will be cheaper than $199. I am in the process on making few of this unit and i don't even know how it works . Any suggestion?

Here's a some picture:

 

[johnehr]

Why not get a phosban 150 for $30 instead?

 

[DonW]

Why not get a phosban 150 for $30 instead?

The reactors they are talking about are much larger. The Phosban150 is great for smaller tanks.

Don

 

[o2manyfish]

Reeffan,

1) The purpose of a fluidized bed is that by putting the media (any type) into a floating state you get the maximum efficieny because contact time is not only increased but 100% of the media is in contact with the water column

2) Looking at your photos -- You want a valve on the inlet side and the water to flow out at will. This is not a pressurized system, but is free flow. The flow rate is dependent upon the media type, media weight, media size and media quantity.

In general you want very small pulverized media. This is easier to float, and provides exponentially more surface area - thereby offerring exponentially more surface contact and increasing your efficiency.

I have about 10+ years experience using fluidized beds... Feel free to ask.

Dave B


PS - The Deltec is expensive, but the simplicity in opening it to clean makes it worth the one time overcharge

 

[reeffan]

Reeffan,

1) The purpose of a fluidized bed is that by putting the media (any type) into a floating state you get the maximum efficieny because contact time is not only increased but 100% of the media is in contact with the water column

2) Looking at your photos -- You want a valve on the inlet side and the water to flow out at will. This is not a pressurized system, but is free flow. The flow rate is dependent upon the media type, media weight, media size and media quantity.

In general you want very small pulverized media. This is easier to float, and provides exponentially more surface area - thereby offerring exponentially more surface contact and increasing your efficiency.

I have about 10+ years experience using fluidized beds... Feel free to ask.

Dave B


PS - The Deltec is expensive, but the simplicity in opening it to clean makes it worth the one time overcharge

Dave,
Now, i get it. I can make those changes.

OK, How about the usage of phosphate? How much and how long do you have to run reactor? I've heard alot of negative feedback regarding using the phospate. How do we use the phospate in right usage without any complications or damage to our reef system?

reeffan

 

[o2manyfish]

Reeffan,

You don't use phosphate... You use phosphate removers.

Some removers if left in the water column too long after absorbing the phosphate from the water column, start breaking down and releasing heavy metals back into the water column.

The best way of determining if you have to change the media, is to measure the phosphate level of the water going into the Reactor vs, the Phosphate level of the water coming out of the reactor. If there is no drop... Then time to replace/exchange.

Some phosphate removing medias, are so efficient that they can remove phosphates too quickly, and that can be detrimental to the livestock. Also when using media like Rowaphos, if you use too much too quickly you can drop your Alkalinity in your system which is what led to some people having bad experiences when using Rowaphos.

Dave B

Dave B

 

[reeffan]

Reeffan,

You don't use phosphate... You use phosphate removers.

The best way of determining if you have to change the media, is to measure the phosphate level of the water going into the Reactor vs, the Phosphate level of the water coming out of the reactor. If there is no drop... Then time to replace/exchange.

Dave,

Ooops...i meant phosphate remover .

So, is there an equipment to measure this levels.

reeffan

 

[o2manyfish]

Test kits.

However, most of the test kits only test for I think In-Organic phosphates. You want to be able to test for In-Organic and Organic phosphates. In the US I think the Merck test kit is the only one available to do that easily.

Dave B

 

[reeffan]

Dave,

Thanks for the quick post. Im learning alot already. I think you got all my question pretty much covered. I might have more question to ask you, if not right now maybe later =). Thanks for the help.....

jonathan

 

[ROWAUSA]

reeffan,

From what I can see, you have a great start on what you are building. What I can add is you need a plate and a sponge like you have on the bottom, at the top as well. If you over fluidize ROWAphos, it will end up somewhere in your systems if you don't have something to keep it from exiting the reactor.

The other feature that I love about the Deltec is the bayonet style removable top. A 3/4 twist and the top is off, which allows you to remove the bottom cylinder for servicing.

For those of us that make a living off of services, time is of the essences. Having to remove a lot of plastic screws and nuts takes a long time. Example, the Phosban reactor. There are 10 or 12 screws in that thing. I can do a complete service of a Deltec in the time it takes me to get all the screws out of the Phosban reactor. Now if time does not matter, the Phosban reactor is a great value.

I can tell how the bottom is designed, but you need to make sure the flow of water is even. Otherwise you will get channeling of the water flow which would not be good.

Nice work so far.

 

[reeffan]

reeffan,

From what I can see, you have a great start on what you are building. What I can add is you need a plate and a sponge like you have on the bottom, at the top as well. If you over fluidize ROWAphos, it will end up somewhere in your systems if you don't have something to keep it from exiting the reactor.

The other feature that I love about the Deltec is the bayonet style removable top. A 3/4 twist and the top is off, which allows you to remove the bottom cylinder for servicing.

For those of us that make a living off of services, time is of the essences. Having to remove a lot of plastic screws and nuts takes a long time. Example, the Phosban reactor. There are 10 or 12 screws in that thing. I can do a complete service of a Deltec in the time it takes me to get all the screws out of the Phosban reactor. Now if time does not matter, the Phosban reactor is a great value.



Nice work so far.

RowaUSA,

Thanks for the input. I was also ask by someone to add another plate for the top part. Its a good point to have it so no phospate remover can go into the system.

As for the lid or top flange, its really not that difficult to open it. Just twist the 6 nylon screw about 3-5 times each and twist the top flange and it will come right off in a few seconds. No tools required .

reeffan

 

[Scooterman]

RowaUSA,
I have a question for you. From what I've been reading, people tell me I need to rinse your product very well before using. I'm just using the sock it comes with because I'm not using much for my little 100g tank. I tried washing it with RO/DI water but this takes a ton of rinsing to get it clear, I was wondering if I could do as some mentioned and rinse with regular tap water. To me this defeats the purpose because the tap water would be full of phosphates. If I do go to a reactor one day, I would also like to know how it is rinsed in a unit that size also.
Thanks sorry for the thread steal, I do want to see just how it is made also.

 

[o2manyfish]

Scooter,

I think the Rowa bottle says "Do Not Rinse"

Dave B

 

[reeffan]

RowaUSA,
I have a question for you. From what I've been reading, people tell me I need to rinse your product very well before using. I'm just using the sock it comes with because I'm not using much for my little 100g tank. I tried washing it with RO/DI water but this takes a ton of rinsing to get it clear, I was wondering if I could do as some mentioned and rinse with regular tap water. To me this defeats the purpose because the tap water would be full of phosphates. If I do go to a reactor one day, I would also like to know how it is rinsed in a unit that size also.
Thanks sorry for the thread steal, I do want to see just how it is made also.

Scooterman,
You are not stealing the thread. This is for everyone that wants to learn more about using phosphate and carbon . So any question or comment is welcome...

reeffan

 

[Scooterman]

I know it says not to rinse but after farther discussion, that purpose was for ponds not reefs. I'm still looking to see what they recommend.

BTW thanks reeffan, can't wait to see your finished product. vbmenu_register("postmenu_53010", true);

 

[ROWAUSA]

RowaUSA,
I have a question for you. From what I've been reading, people tell me I need to rinse your product very well before using. I'm just using the sock it comes with because I'm not using much for my little 100g tank. I tried washing it with RO/DI water but this takes a ton of rinsing to get it clear, I was wondering if I could do as some mentioned and rinse with regular tap water. To me this defeats the purpose because the tap water would be full of phosphates. If I do go to a reactor one day, I would also like to know how it is rinsed in a unit that size also.
Thanks sorry for the thread steal, I do want to see just how it is made also.

Scooterman,
Your question is a common one. The subject of rinsing ROWAphos has been an issue since the beginning. I will do my best to cover the reason of why you may, or may not need to rinse ROWAphos.

The manufacturing process used to make ROWAphos produces a large amount of very small particles called "fines". These "fines" are small enough to pass right through the filter bag that comes in the 100 and 250 ML containers or the sponge filter in a Deltec reactor or a Phosban reactor.

A small amount of these fines are no big deal and pose threat to your system. A large amount of these fines could make a mess of either your display tank or your sump. The only instance in where it could pose a problem if you used a large amount of ROWAphos in a reactor and all the fines were released into your aquarium and they coated your corals. That would not be good.

So, here is my rule of thumb when using ROWAphos. If, as in your, case you are using a small amount in the filter bag, I recommend you add no more then 50ML's of ROWAphos to the filter bag. If you add to much, water will not get to the center of the product. I also recommend when using the filter sock to remove if from the water and re-distribute the product around in the bag to reduce packing of the material.

Using a large mixing type bowl or small 1 gallon bucket, fill it with RO water. Take the bag with the fresh ROWAphos in it and dip it in the RO water like a tea bag. Dip it several time until you no longer see any fines running out of the bag. The water may still be the color of tea, but that is not big deal. You just want to rinse away most of the fines.

When using ROWAphos in a reactor, I hook it up to a 5 gallon bucket of RO water and slowly run the water through the reactor until there are no more signs of fines in the output water.

I hope this help clear up the rinsing issue for you. Please do not hesitate asking me any questions regarding ROWA products. You never know who is reading and may have the same question.

Remember, feed your fish, not your algae.