Phosphate problems

[Slickdonkey]

I thought I'd solicit some input about an approach to lower my phosphate levels. I've done a few hours of reading and searching but a lot of the information is spread out all over the place and it's difficult to get the big picture on this subject.

I did a Salifert phophate test over the weekend and found my levels are at 1 ppm. The tank is young (two months) and isn't showing bad signs like hair algae (yet), but I thought I'd better address this before it becomes a problem. I know there are phophate removers but I'm leaning against this at the moment because it would be better to find the source of the problem and correct it. How many of you use phosphate removers and is it inevitable to some extent in a captive reef?

I am kind of at a loss. With such a young tank why are my levels so high?

Here is some relevant information:
- Total system volume is about 275 gallons
- I use RO/DI water
- I have a one-inch sandbed in the main display (sugar sized grain with some rubble mixed in)
- I have a seven-inch DSB in the refugium with silica-based sand and live rock
- I do not soak my frozen food in RO/DI water before feeding
- I feed once a day

Current tank inhabitants. It looks like a lot but it really isn't considering the size of the tank:
- Oscellaris clown
- Royal gramma
- Yellow goby
- Hydnophora excesa (small)
- Pulsing xenia (small)
- Green star polyps (small)
- Harlequin starfish
- Two cleaner shrimp
- 60 scarlet hermits
- 2 mexican turbo snails
- 100 nassarius snails
- 75 cerith snails
- 75 astrae snails
- 12 bumblebee snails
- 3 nerite snails
- 4 fighting conchs

 

[twilliard]

Hey Brian how many times did you test?

at 1PPM your tank sure looked clear.

 

[Slickdonkey]

I just tested once. You're right, I'm not noticing any problems yet but I think this is a time bomb. I am also running ozone; that keeps the water clear.

I think tonight I'll get a water sample near the DSB in the fuge where we were poking around and see if that is the culprit. There's not a lot of flow through there.

Hoping I didn't make a mistake by doing a remote DSB that doesn't get stirred much.

 

[twilliard]

Its just odd with that kind of volume to read a 1PPM

I feed the CRAP out of my 120G I mean twice a day freeze dried shrimp, fish pellets with frozen squid and read no tractable phos.

Post what your reading is at your DSB I am curious

 

[Slickdonkey]

Will do. One other thing I forgot to mention above is that my makeup saltwater tests zero for phosphates. Not surprising since it's RO/DI.

 

[Krish]

I use the Two Little Fishies Phosban reactor with the Julian Sprungs formula and works well for me.

 

[Slickdonkey]

Yeah Krish, I am aware these things are out there but if I can avoid another piece of equipment, purchasing the media, and the corresponding increased maintenance that goes along with it, so much the better!

 

[Krish]

I agree...Better to deal with the problem naturally If you ever decide on one, they are the way to IMO. The whole setup is less than $100 and the media is good for about 3 months and doesn't reverse what it has absorbed like carbon does once it becomes exhausted. Best wishes

 

[Little Luey]

do you have a skimmer? try skimming wet, shoot for a "green cup of tea" on the collection cup.
how often/large are your water changes? how much food do you give your fish? all the sand you mention is new, right? meaning it did not come from an existing tank. The silica based sand, is that like playsand? did you tested with vinegar? I forgot what the deal with the vinegar is, if it boubles/fisses is good or no good for a reef, I forgot.

 

[Slickdonkey]

do you have a skimmer? try skimming wet, shoot for a "green cup of tea" on the collection cup.
how often/large are your water changes? how much food do you give your fish? all the sand you mention is new, right? meaning it did not come from an existing tank. The silica based sand, is that like playsand? did you tested with vinegar? I forgot what the deal with the vinegar is, if it boubles/fisses is good or no good for a reef, I forgot.

Yep, I run a skimmer and it appear to be working fine. Also running ozone. Currently I'm changing 5 gallons of water per day. The sand is new. The 1" sandbed in the tank is aragonite-based and the 7" in the DSB is a silica-based sand (sandblasting stuff from Home Depot).

Fish food consists of about half a cube of frozen stuff daily (enriched brine, mysis, plankton, formula 1, etc).

 

[Little Luey]

do you have any prefilter sponges or HOB filters? is the rock sheading stuff like snail poop? do you see anything like that on the sand? sometimes the rock is in tanks that had been loaded with phospate and it gets inside them, after the rock goes to another tank with less phospate it starts to sheed, it will do that until the rock has the same phospate content as the tank it is in (it will reach a balance). Do you know if the rock came from another tank or from a distributor?

 

[Slickdonkey]

do you have any prefilter sponges or HOB filters? is the rock sheading stuff like snail poop? do you see anything like that on the sand?

No to all those.

Do you know if the rock came from another tank or from a distributor?

Rock is fresh from the South Pacific; it's never been in anyone else's tank. I did cure the rock in the tank however.

 

[Little Luey]

All I can say is wow. You dont seem to have a heavy stocked tank or overfeed, I don't know what it could be.
Are you sure you tested correctly? I had to ask because it does not make sence. Is there any algie in the tank?

 

[Slickdonkey]

No algae yet. Like I said I'd never have thought there was a problem if I wasn't doing a routine test.

 

[twilliard]

I think it was a bad test

 

[Slickdonkey]

That could be. I tested again. And yet again, by grabbing some water just above the DSB in the fuge. All tests read 1 ppm again.

I think I will take some water to the LFS tomorrow and ask them to test for me.

 

[twilliard]

Wow there is something not right then.

This all leads me to ask..
I thought Phosphates led to algae issues
I have no tractable Phosphates yet I have algae, but I have NEVER tested for nitrates. What does fuel the fire? Brian has NO algae compared to my tank.
Whats your thoughts Brian?
Maybe I should test nitrates?

 

[Little Luey]

Phospate can come in to the tank a few different ways, most of the fish food, specially flake food, has phospate. One of the reasons you have no detectable phospates in your tank is because the hair algie is using it up, then you may have a few plant eating fish/crabs/snail; when they poop, they poop phospate also.
I would not worry too much if there is no hair algie. If you want your test to say "0" you can always get a phospoban reactor.

 

[Slickdonkey]

Well my tank is still new, not really enough time to develop the kind of algae problems you see with older tanks. Given enough time with these phosphate levels I'm sure it will be growing like weeds. I've also got high nitrate levels (10-15 ppm) which will also be a problem if I don't get that under control.

I started running some chaeto in the fuge about 3 weeks ago. Hopefully that will help with some of these problems. It may not have had time to kick in yet. It might also be beneficial to try growing some other algae in there once I get some of that leftover rock out of there!

 

[Slickdonkey]

Ok, I went to the LFS at lunch and their kit (fasTest) reads 0.4 ppm for phosphates. They agreed that the Salifert kit should be more accurate.

FWIW, they thought my levels are high because it's a new tank and I cured my rock in the tank. They suspect the levels will decrease eventually and I could try running a phosphate remover in the meantime.

BTW they were not impressed that I was running a DSB in the fuge.