Plumbing Design - Please comment!

[jrgilles]

Hey guys!

I've purchased all my plumbing parts and am about to assemble it.

I wanted to post my plans up here first though to see if there were any newbie mistakes I was making in the layout.

My sump tank sits on a shelf extending 6 inches out behind the back of the tank, so the plumbing can flow straight down into it.

One thing I was wondering about is should I put a 90 degree bend just below the overflow box then another 90 to turn it straight down, instead of just going straight down? I was thinking that might make it all run quieter.

The basic flow is to come out of the overflow box and down through a 1.5” drain pipe, with a Tee splitting off a bit of flow to go to the refugium (there is a hose barb there, and I’ll do a flexible 1” tube to get to the fuge, with a ball valve for flow control.), then it flows down, across the sump, and down again into the fill tank.

Also, how should I handle the piece of pipe in the fill tank? Should I perforate it with holes for drainage? Or just have it flow down and have the pipe terminate a few inches above the bottom? I was going to put a filter sock over the pipe to remove detritus.

For the return, I’m using a 900 GPH Ehein 1262 return pump. It goes up to a 4 way junction, where I will have a drain line to the left (hose barb with a ball valve), a return line to the sump to the left (so I can reduce flow if needed to the tank without building up more head pressure) and then the return line coming out of the top to return to the tank.

The fuge will just overflow and drain back into the sump tank.

If anyone has any advice on things to change with this, I’d love to hear it. Thanks!

Rob

 

[braddo]

I'm no plumbing expert, looks pretty good to me.

I am not sure how much pressure your 'T' to the fuge will provide and in fact water flowing past that 'T' could act as a venturi creating suction rather than providing flow.

Your capped off 'T' leading to the sump may not need the cap on it or should have a hole in it to allow air to escape if the drain end is under water. If air can't escape it will make your sump bubble and sound like a hot tub.

 

[jrgilles]

The inside of the 'Tee' piece has a piece of plastic coming out diverting about 1/3 of the flow, so it seems like it will catch enough. I had that same thought though, but talked to my dad who is a contractor and he said the pressure should fill it fine.

It doesn't need too much flow, as it just has to cycle my 20 gallon fuge maybe 2.5X per hour.

That did worry me a bit though. I guess if it doesn't work I can remove and fix the piece. I'm trying to put in a lot of unions so I can disassemble/tweak this as I go.

Any thoughts on if I should have an 'S' curve or something coming out of the overflow box so the water doesn't just drop for 3 feet to the bend in the pipe? I'm worried that is going to be noisy, but I guess the drop is unavoidable.

 

[NaTe R]

i wouldn't think you will hear the water dropping to the elbow but to get a curve you could use spa flex.

 

[braddo]

I think the key to noise is keeping as much air as possible out of your plumbing.

My first attempt was a disaster. The air suction noise I had coming from my durso was more than I expected, the bubbling of the sump was unexpected but understandable since my outlet was underwater but what really caught me off guard was how much noise was coming directly from the sound of the water and air flowing through my pipes.

Unions are a good thing, as you are mostly likely to make some tweaks after initial setup. I ended up switching to a 'Herbie' type drain so that I had no air running through my plumbing.

 

[ac7av]

I am probably just confused as usual but on your design, what is the reason for the T off to the fuge? Its seems like a bit unusual to me but what do I know. It seems to me your just splitting off water that your just pumping back into the tank. Seems kinda over kill. I am not an expert by any means but it seems the rule of thumb on the sump / fuge is 3 to 5 times the tank volume for flow per hour. It seems like your going to have a balancing act or something going on to keep the flow split equally or the volume you want going each direction and have 2 return pumps back into the tank. I don’t know, it may work but seem unusual and a lot of extra work.

 

[jrgilles]

I am probably just confused as usual but on your design, what is the reason for the T off to the fuge? Its seems like a bit unusual to me but what do I know. It seems to me your just splitting off water that your just pumping back into the tank. Seems kinda over kill. I am not an expert by any means but it seems the rule of thumb on the sump / fuge is 3 to 5 times the tank volume for flow per hour. It seems like your going to have a balancing act or something going on to keep the flow split equally or the volume you want going each direction and have 2 return pumps back into the tank. I don’t know, it may work but seem unusual and a lot of extra work.

So off the drain line, I split it off fo the fuge (maybe 6 inches above the base of the main tank,/top of main tank stand.) I have it regulated by a valve (after the split) so I can control how much goes to the fuge. This will gravity feed into the fuge, which will be on a stand next to my main tank (top of fuge is level with the bottom of main tank). The fuge will then drain through a hole drilled in the back (at the top) and continue (gravity fed) to the sump fill tank.

Its just a way to divert off some water to flow into/through the fuge which will then continue to the sump, all gravity fed. I was originally going to have the fuge as part of my 50 gallon sump, but after discussion on the forums here I decided I would be better off having a big return tank on my sump instead of cramming in a fuge, so I made a short (~1.5 ft. tall) stand for a 20 gallon tank I had sitting around and moved the fuge there.

If that makes sense.... kind of wordy and I think I repeated myself, but hopefully you get the picture.

I just opted not to draw the fuge fill line or return line into the plumbing diagram, since it isn't really necessary.

rob

 

[jrgilles]

With the valve I will keep the fuge cycling at maybe 3 times per hour, while most of the water will flow through the plumbing diagram I posted above. Really its just to separate the fuge from the sump so I can have a big return tank and not have to refill it as often.

 

[ac7av]

I think I understand what you’re doing.
I guess my question was more to the affect of why are you splitting it at all?
Run the water into your fuge then dump it into the sump then back into the tank.
It just seems like your dumping water into the sump bypassing the fuge to pump back into the tank or did I miss something on another thread?

 

[jrgilles]

This is basically what I'm doing, except instead of 2 drain lines, I only have 1 and am splitting it.

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/c/split_sump.html

In the future I could adapt it just like melev if I add a second drain from the main tank.

 

[jrgilles]

Getting close! Here are some pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/jrgilles/AquariumConstruction?feat=directlink

 

[RAJOD]

If you leave the long drop with the overflow it will perform better in terms of how many GPH it can handle. Noise? if you put a valve on the overflow you can get the water to back up in the pipe so its not falling as far.

Could insulate the pipe of put a muffler on the opening.

Why the T on the return? That little pump does not have enough ooph to divert much water. If you plan on a spray bar at the top it will restrict flow even more. Not sure the size of the tank but the return pump will only do about 590ghp at 6 feet of head. Every T you put in adds some resistance.

I would not restrict the flow at the top, it will gut the gph too much.

And they fellow that said it could create a venturi effect, true if the flow is high enough. Might be better to pu a ball valve on the skimmer end of the drain that way you can control the smaller output to the fuge better.

 

[veralteaquatics]

I would feed the skimmer from the drain and not the return.