Plumbing my sump please help!

[NWKENPO]

Hey everyone, I'm building a 110gal reef tank with dule overflows. I have a 30gal (i think) sump that came with the tank. I am also going to run a Aqua-C 240 skimmer, and 1/4 horse chiller. Ok my question is what would be the best way to plumb this. I will add that the skimmer is not going to be mounted in the sump because there is no room. It will be mounted on the outside of the sump. My sump measurements are 26(L)x12(W)x18(T)
I also have a Mag 18 and a Mag 12 pump. I know I will need a 3rd pump sence I am running a chiller also. What size would be ideal for a 1/4 horse chiller?
I am guessing that I will have my skimmer intake where the drain is and my return for my chiller going back into the tank via the return pipes. Should I run a Mag 18 to my chiller? Or would the lower gph pump be ok? I think recommended is up to 875 gph for the chiller. I want to be sure I have a lot of flow comming out of my return pipe into my take so I'm not sure a pump that low would give me that. But I'm also worried that to big a pump may damage my chiller.
If any one has a good idea how to make this work awesome please let me know. I am not worried about cost as much as I am about perfection.
Thank you I will look forward to your replys

Bill

 

[Krish]

For starters, if the chiller is rated under 900 gph, then I wouldn't go above that. If you do, then chances are the water will probably pass through the chiller too fast to where it wouldn't be cooled properly. Damage wise, I can't remember if too much flow damages a chiller so I guess someone else will have to chime in on that. I know you mentioned you wanted more flow going from the sump to your tank and if it is just for circulation purposes then I would try another method (maybe a power head etc) to give you the flow you want and not try to get it all from a return. How I had my AquaC EV-120 set up was externally as well. I had to build a platform to raise it to the right height which was recommended for it to perform properly. For my chiller, I had a mag950 that I ran through the chiller first when fed the tank so it was plumbed inline of my return pump. On another setup of mine, I had the skimmer sitting in-sump (in a really small sump) and the chiller plumbed the same way. I'll see if I can grab you some pictures. I'm not home to just upload from my pc so I will have to browse a few old threads. Give me a sec.

 

[Krish]

I have too many threads :lol:. I'll upload them when I get home.

 

[the6goat6man6]

I would use the mag 12 as your return. Not sure if that is too much for the chiller, but I don't think high flow though the chiller will damage it. The tubes in the chiller will only allow so much pressure and I don't think the tubes in the chiller will burst under the pump, the are not pressure pumps. The faster the water through the chiller, the less effective, less contact with chiller. So you may want to run a slower return through the chiller, it will cool the water faster. I would aim for 900-1000gph after plumbing loss, just put a valve in line after the pump in case you have to slow her down. Just my thoughts, Hopefully someone esle with more experience will chime in.

Power heads, as Krish suggested, are a good option. I would go with something with magnet holders, like hydor wave pumps or something like. One of the sponsers has a good price for Hydor Koralia Evo's (thats what I run, low power), Premium aquatics. I got some 1050gph for about $35-40.

 

[scytale]

Not sure if you plan to have a refugium chamber in your sump too...
If you do, then your plumbing layout sounds great (pulling your warm chiller water from the drain chamber and then putting the cooled water back in the return chamber) it should reduce your flow rate through the fuge section a lot, which is good.
(because definitely you wouldn't want the same (high) flow rate through a fuge as you have through the return)

You may want to check a pump head loss calculator (like this one: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php) as you do your planning.

My 1/5HP chiller is remote but I actually had to upgrade to a Mag 12, just to get the minimum flow rate (360gph) for my chiller--some of that was due to the length of piping (30ft)--but a lot of it was do to head-loss from the chiller itself (the chiller creates pressure itself as the water passes through all that titanium heat-transfer material)

 

[Krish]

So I went back and checked my pics and actually on my 75gal, I used a small pump that re-circulated water in the sump so it sucked from the sump and dumped back in it. The return pump on this tank didn't run through it. The pump I used was rated at about 500 gph I think for the chiller.

K...So here's the Aqua C (similar to yours but a little smaller) sitting externally on this one off to the left on a stand. I don't have a shot saved for some reason showing properly how the chiller was fed, but in the shot below, where the red arrow is, was where the feed pump for the chiller sat and the green arrow shows wher it dumped back the water. Those two chambers are connected by a bulkhead so I didn't have to worry about leaving the chiller pump running if the sump's return was off. It would just recycle then water.







Here is where the chiller sat in relation to the sump. Basically right outside. I could have used the return pump to pass through the chiller, but didn't do it on this setup but rather the other which I'll post pics of as well.







And here's the 38 gal. Totally different approach. Much smaller sump, but skimmer fits inside of it and the return pump fed the skimmer first this time then tank. Green arrow shows return line. I was using a mag950 and put a ball valve on it incase it was a bit too much flow for the chiller which sat in the same location as the other tank. As you can see, I had a shelf put in my sump for the skimmer to sit sideways and up high enough to work properly. Both setups worked like a charm.




URL]

 

[NWKENPO]

Thank you, I just finally was able to sit down at my computer and read all your replys. I hate Mondays, lol. I think the chiller is rated around 900gph. I will have to look it up. But what you said makes sence. I will have to think about this a little more. Your pics of your tank and set up are awesome. Nice job! I may take some of your ideas, if you don't mind Thank you your help

 

[NWKENPO]

Thank you for your input I not going to run a refugium on this set up , I think my sump is too small, But this is just going to get me going until I can afford a bigger sump. I was looking into getting a Trigger system sump, they seem nice but spendy. I have to work with what I got for the time being. But eventually I would like to do a nice refugium setup.
I was thinking, would it be possible to just feed the chiller with say a mag 9 and dump it back into the sump and then use my mag 12 or 18 to my return . So it would be like this, have a mag 9, feeding my chiller, with the chiller return dumping back into the sump, have a mag 12 or 18 (not sure yet) feeding my skimmer, and either the 12 or 18 mag as my return pump?

 

[Krish]

Thank you, I just finally was able to sit down at my computer and read all your replys. I hate Mondays, lol. I think the chiller is rated around 900gph. I will have to look it up. But what you said makes sence. I will have to think about this a little more. Your pics of your tank and set up are awesome. Nice job! I may take some of your ideas, if you don't mind Thank you your help

Haha!! No problem at all!!

Thank you for your input I not going to run a refugium on this set up , I think my sump is too small, But this is just going to get me going until I can afford a bigger sump. I was looking into getting a Trigger system sump, they seem nice but spendy. I have to work with what I got for the time being. But eventually I would like to do a nice refugium setup.
I was thinking, would it be possible to just feed the chiller with say a mag 9 and dump it back into the sump and then use my mag 12 or 18 to my return . So it would be like this, have a mag 9, feeding my chiller, with the chiller return dumping back into the sump, have a mag 12 or 18 (not sure yet) feeding my skimmer, and either the 12 or 18 mag as my return pump?

You can use a pump and circulate the water from your sump back to it like I did on the 75gal. Wish I had a photo to show you, but that's how it was set up. As for your return pump, you could use the mag 12 if your overflow is able to handle that much flow. I'm thinking the mag18 will be way too much pump for your sump so the mag12 may be the one to go with granted your overflow can handle it. I think most reef ready tanks like the All-Glass/Aqueon tanks, each overflow is rated for about 600-800gph gph (but I'm thinking it is more like 600. Someone will have to confirm). Also, there's a debate as to whether you should have slow or fast water running through your sump. Some say too fast, and your skimmer misses alot of the in-coming water, but on that same note, more water passes through the sump and is processed each hour than a slower flow, which doesn't see as much water each hopur, but the skimmer has more contact time to process in-coming water so it is a toss up. I generally like a slower flow as opposed to very fast flow. Also, it will all depend on your fuge as well. Some things require good flow and others not as much so it all depepnds on what you are keeping in the fuge as well.

 

[scytale]

Yep, that exactly what I did.
I have a mag12 powering my chiller (could have used a mag9 if the plumbing-loop wasn't 30ft long)

I have another mag12 powering my return + a RemoraPro + a gravity-drain fuge. (through lots of elbows and valves and tee's)

And I have the mag12 dialed WAAAY back (valve is probably 50-60% closed)--mainly because my external overflow sucks, and seems to top out at 550gph (even though it's supposed to be rated for "600-800" gph.)

Thank you for your input I not going to run a refugium on this set up , I think my sump is too small, But this is just going to get me going until I can afford a bigger sump. I was looking into getting a Trigger system sump, they seem nice but spendy. I have to work with what I got for the time being. But eventually I would like to do a nice refugium setup.
I was thinking, would it be possible to just feed the chiller with say a mag 9 and dump it back into the sump and then use my mag 12 or 18 to my return . So it would be like this, have a mag 9, feeding my chiller, with the chiller return dumping back into the sump, have a mag 12 or 18 (not sure yet) feeding my skimmer, and either the 12 or 18 mag as my return pump?