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From the discussion thus far I don't think it's a flow problem. It is likely nitrate and or lighting. Did you have a phosphate problem? How close is your light to the surface and are the corals in question closer to the light or are they at random locations? Forgot to ask...Did the problem start when you upgraded to 250 and why did you upgrade?

well i had a bit of hair algae and a small amount of phos. so started using rowaphos and that got rid of it so figured idd keep it going but if i dont need it i figure why use it now unless i see phos. lvls start to show up on my kit. the light is hung about 3" off the top of the water and corals are all at random locations that are having problems...no after i added the new light everythng started to color up and get real happy for a few weeks...then about three weeks ago is when it all started and i upgraded due to corals browning out. and not having enough lighting...only had a 150 on it.
 
What is used for your flow?
SPS under low flow could get a bacteria called brown slime. Also SPS like most other coral perfer small meaty bits of food and if it can flow by them more then one time then theres a better chance of capture. Food like cyclops or even brine fead smaller amount more often. Then they like good current over high flow or dirrect flow. You need to get flow right for the whole tank and then adjust coral to this.
They also perfer constant steady proper water readings.

If coral have enough food and quality water then they will grow great under PC or MH lights. They may seen to grow fine at first but if you dont adjust there food then they will slow in growth and if food supply drops then poylps will reduce for better chance other poylps survive for better times.

Also you will notice corals growing mosr in one dirrection . This would be the area they perfer for reasons like flow differance or light differance , and some corals with extend to better areas or flatten out or shrink up if conditions are wrong.

Learn to read your coral and never add more then 1 or 2 at a time to allow for learning there needs.

I do not agree. Sps need random turbulent flow. I have 70x turnover in a 34g cube. The problem is not flow related imo.:)
 
3" is really close for MH. Mine are about 12-14 inches off the water. Since your corals started improving though after the addition I wouldn't think that was the problem. Id still consider raising them though to increase their spread and reduce hotspots. You would also save some money in "chilling".

I have a hard time believing nitrates alone are causing PE problems.
Have you run carbon?
Have you checked for stray voltage?
Was there a chance that your ALK got low at some point when your corals started to take off? It seems logical to me, that as your coral growth rate increased dramaticaly with your new lights and lowered phosphates, then your daily alk/calc consumption also increased dramaticaly. If this deficit in daily alk suplementation went unoticed and were allowed to accumulate for say 5 or 6 days, then your alk would get dangerously low. Alk crashes IME are the biggest causes for random STN's and PE problems. Thats just my guess though, and since your dealing with random STN and PE problems all you can really do is guess =\ Its been trial and error for me.

I can't speak for your tank, but Ive noticed an increase in PE in my tank since I have increased feeding(I added a group of anthias). My nitrates increased from 5 to 10 yet coloration has improved, and PE is the best Ive ever had. Growth is defintly not what it could be though.

Peace
 
Running carbon only helps control ammonia or fish waste . And its life is usually short and needs replaceing alot and besides your LR and water changes and water source and feeding habits and ect. do much more then any carbon. In fact if done right the LR will controll it better by its self.

Many people have gone through the trail and error for us and outlined the basic setup that will work if followed.

Proper water circulation and or flow.
Minimum amount of LR and LS.
minimum amount of CUC , after the cycle.
Water test kit.
Filtered water via RO/DI water.
Regular water changes adjusted to water readings.
Skimmer.
A small HOB media filter helps but not needed.
Add coral and fish very slow and let the tank mature. You should not have to add anything extra to acheive great results.

Learn and understand the basic setup and the rest will fall in place.

3" is really close for MH. Mine are about 12-14 inches off the water. Since your corals started improving though after the addition I wouldn't think that was the problem. Id still consider raising them though to increase their spread and reduce hotspots. You would also save some money in "chilling".

I have a hard time believing nitrates alone are causing PE problems.
Have you run carbon?
Have you checked for stray voltage?
Was there a chance that your ALK got low at some point when your corals started to take off? It seems logical to me, that as your coral growth rate increased dramaticaly with your new lights and lowered phosphates, then your daily alk/calc consumption also increased dramaticaly. If this deficit in daily alk suplementation went unoticed and were allowed to accumulate for say 5 or 6 days, then your alk would get dangerously low. Alk crashes IME are the biggest causes for random STN's and PE problems. Thats just my guess though, and since your dealing with random STN and PE problems all you can really do is guess =\ Its been trial and error for me.

I can't speak for your tank, but Ive noticed an increase in PE in my tank since I have increased feeding(I added a group of anthias). My nitrates increased from 5 to 10 yet coloration has improved, and PE is the best Ive ever had. Growth is defintly not what it could be though.

Peace
 
well i had a bit of hair algae and a small amount of phos. so started using rowaphos and that got rid of it so figured idd keep it going but if i dont need it i figure why use it now unless i see phos. lvls start to show up on my kit. the light is hung about 3" off the top of the water and corals are all at random locations that are having problems...no after i added the new light everythng started to color up and get real happy for a few weeks...then about three weeks ago is when it all started and i upgraded due to corals browning out. and not having enough lighting...only had a 150 on it.

Thanks for the info. I was curious about the Phosphate/Nitrate/lighting upgrade issue. Ok this is how I see this. keep in mind without seeing and witnessing everything that happened I could be wrong.

Your tank is fairly new. Nice tank BTW remember seeing it sitting there after being built. There is a certain window of opportunity we have to advance toward the next step in the cycling/acclimation/introduction of corals etc process and naturally, (human nature) many people cannot wait until that window is completely open before they try to climb through it. IMHO your tank was not cycled to the point of readiness (by my definition:)) before introduction of your corals (remember, you've been battling Nitrate ever since the tank was set up...right? And if I remember correctly you even went back and forth on keeping a sand bed or bare bottom).

That, along with the pre-mature addition of new corals/inhabitants caused your huge spike in Nitrate and that helped jump start your Phosphate/Hair Algae issue and that in turn started your sps to show signs of stress. Those signs of stress were interpreted by you as an indication of inadequate lighting, so you upgraded to 250wt which in turn added to the stress of already stressed out corals.

So....What does all this mean? It means you may have turned the corner. I say this because you said maybe it's time to wait it out and see what happens and that's what I think you should do but not completely...

I think your light is way too close to the water. I also think your upgrade was unnecessary, however, since you have it now I would raise your light so it's no closer than about 10-12 inches from the surface. Keep in mind these adjustment are yet another alteration your corals will have to adapt to. You may even consider a couple inches a day to reduce stress. Keep your water quality steady and high. No Nitrate no Phosphate etc. Keep the temp fluctuations as minimal as possible and keep your flow random but steady. I would also reduce the introduction of any food for fish or corals until you get that Nitrate down to zero. In other words don't go making any drastic changes to the system until your system is ready and what I mean by ready is zero Nitrates. Zero Phosphate. Zero Algae growth. Zero stress.

You've got a great little system but I think the only problem is that you're trying to make your system keep corals instead of keeping corals for your system.

DISCLAIMER;
The views and opinions expressed in this post are solely the views and opinions of the poster and do not reflect the views and opinions of others on this board, nor does it reflect the view and opinions of the staff.:)
 
I asked about the carbon because there could be some foriegn polutant that made it into his water and running carbon will help remove it.

"Minimum amount of LR and LS."

?? Do you mean Maximum amount of LR and LS? That I can agree with =p
 
Activated carbon (GAC) is a very useful tool in all types of reef tanks. It is effective in improving water clarity and quality.

"Activated carbon adsorbs the nonpolar, hydrophobic organic from the system water and acts as a molecular sieve (absorption) for other organic particles. It is highly effective in removing organic molecules that create color and odor and also very effective in removing toxic organic compounds and heavy metals" (Martin Moe Jr. 1992).

In this particular case I don't think it's a factor because of the frequent water changes being performed. I just wanted to clarify (no pun intended) :) that GAC can be a useful tool.

Regards,
Kevin
 
yeah ive been also thinking it could have been some sort of outside polutant....cause we have landscape come around couple days a week and not sure if they spray anything and the tank is in the dining room right next to the window we allways open....now dont have to worry about that due to we installed a AC in that window lol but its probably not anything to do with that just gotta have "patience" the key word! pretty much just going to test and get my nitrates to zero and keep doing what i have been doing im hoping if i keep a steady rutine of everything then it will work itself out :badgrin:
 
im pretty sure im RB free ive checked pretty closely i need to go get a magnifying glass lol think ill do that today. yeah im just going to keep maintaining the tank the way it is and see if things stable out i think they will once nitrate is down and i keep doing 10 gal. weekly changes.
 
well checked for pests...with magnifying glass dont see anything at all...when i had RB i saw the RBs. so i know i dont have them but how small are AEFWs? you should be able to see them with a magnifying glass right? cause whats wierd is one of the acros i had up top thats always done awsome just recently lost its polyps and is now going into RTN....ill get some pics of it soon just waiting to see if its going to stop or not....:confused:...
 
If you think it might be infested, you have to dip in something like TMPCC for 20 minutes. If you have AEFW's youll see them in the bucket, and if any are left on the coral youll see them too because they will be deyed a different color.
 
see i dont think it is...just dont know how to tell...going to read up a bit on them and check out some pics of them dont see anything at all on the corals just overnight one acro went from great with lots of polyps to this afternoon whole branch is bone white with no flesh.


If you think it might be infested, you have to dip in something like TMPCC for 20 minutes. If you have AEFW's youll see them in the bucket, and if any are left on the coral youll see them too because they will be deyed a different color.
 
due to some further research ive found some sort of bug that is on my corals....what it is is a small black bug that looks exactly like RBs and the corals that have these black bugs on them arent looking too well its on all the corals that are receeding.....so has anyone ever ran across these buggers? and it almost looks like some sort of pod....i wonder if i could just do a RB treatment and see what that does......if it gets rid of these guys ive looked all over for info on other pests but nothing pointing to something exactly like RB....
 

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