Prepping to do Red Bug 6 hr dip

[Jan]

Hi Everyone,

I am getting ready to buy some SPS frags from a couple of you at next week's swap meeting (do you remember how excited you were when you got your first ones?? ).

Anyway, per Dang's advice I am going to "treat and enjoy." I read the thread about red bug treatment and this is what I plan to do:

1. Set up rubbermaid container with heated SW, run a small airstone in there.
2. Place unmounted frags in the container with SW and Interceptor at proper dilution (25 mg/10 gallons H2O). Let them soak for 6 hours.
3. After 6 hrs, move the frags to second container with clean SW...this is the point where I start to wonder. Since I'm not treating my display tank, how important is this step? Could I just dip the frags in clean SW, swish them around, mount and place in my display? Or do I really need to have them sit in clean SW and run carbon for some period of time? I assume I'm just trying to avoid bringing any of the milbemycin over to the main tank.

Thanks once again for your help,

Jan

 

[DonW]

I'm not that high tech. I take a tupperware bowl fill it with sw from my tank. Throw in about a 1/3 of a interceptor tab ground up. I drip acclimate the coral for an hour and put it in the tank. Works just fine.

Don

 

[trido]

When I treated my tank for redbugs last fall I couldnt get my cleaner shrimp out of the tank and thought It was a gonner for sure. It and quite a few copepods survived without any noticable harm. I highly doubt that the amount of interceptor left on the frags from a dip would have any affect at all on your main tank.

 

[Sherman]

A rinse might be a good idea, just to eliminate as much of the Interceptor as feasible.

Just a thought, though it also may not matter. I wouldn't run the air stone, in the case it creates a little skimming action, and pulls all the Interceptor's active ingredient to the surface. I may be worrying too much, but that's why you're told to turn off the skimmer, as well. Just a thought.

 

[fly guy]

Dont use interceptor to dip incoming corals. It takes way too long and is worthless in a sense. Sure it will kill red bugs but red bugs in comparison to acro eating flatworms is like stubbing your toe really really bad in comparison to blowing your leg off with a grenade. Interceptotr is great because used properly you can safely use it in your display tank to erradicate red bugs.

Use Tropic Marine Pro coral cure to dip new arrivals. It will kill both redbugs and aefw's and kill them in 20 minutes. It still wont kill aefw eggs which is why a full QT for at least a few weeks is better, but if you dont have the means to do that, at least inspect very carefully for bite marks and eggs, as well as inspect the water you dip in for any that may have come off. Using a dark container to dip in helps with seeing them. If you find any do yourself a favor and do not add the frag to your tank unless you are 100% sure there are no eggs. this is done by whacking off the the coral well above any bite marks and very closely inspecting with a magnifying glass.

you should rinse well after dipping with any iodine substance before putting in the tank

 

[class clown]

Jan - I haven't done a red bug dip before, however my only advice is that I'd probably make sure to use the same water from your tank in all of your different stages (if you decide to do multiple stages thing). This way, it'll be less stress overall b/c it doesn't have to get acclimated to a bunch of different waters in the same day. Not sure if you were planning on doing this or not, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

I know Jezzeaepi is gearing up for a dip too. You two should trade secrets. Oh.. and if you have leftover interceptor, give me a jingle

 

[DonW]

Dont use interceptor to dip incoming corals. It takes way too long and is worthless in a sense.

It takes less than ten minutes if mixed as a dip not the tank treatment.
The tropic marin is not 100% for red bugs and can be used in conjunction with interceptor.
Don

 

[tamarindthai]

this is how i just play around,,2 cups of water+ 5 drops of lugol iodine,,the bugs jump off the coral and die,,,instantly:badgrin: ,2 mins i took it out and rinse off,,i just play around,,so far that frag i played with still alive ,,but this might not be the good advise

 

[Damsel13]

Oh my, I was just reading about red bugs and acropora. The whole procedure sounds very involved and would be stressful for me. I wish you lots of success.

Debbie

 

[fly guy]

It takes less than ten minutes if mixed as a dip not the tank treatment.
The tropic marin is not 100% for red bugs and can be used in conjunction with interceptor.
Don

Not to be argumentative, but ive played with both interceptor and tmpcc and a bunch of other treatments unfortunately in the last couple of years. Interceptor will not kill redbugs at any concentration in only ten minutes. An hour is the absolute earliest i have ever seen redbugs start to drop at concentrated strength, and thats just start dropping off not all of them by any means. I do believe that Interceptor is an effective dip, but it does take several hours concentrated to be sure.
tmpcc for 20 minutes at 150% does indeed kill all the redbugs IME.

Interceptor is great because it can safely be used in tank.

Ive never seen redbugs kill anything......aefw's wiped out 1/2 of my acros from a loaded system by the time i got rid of them

 

[DonW]

Interceptor will not kill redbugs at any concentration in only ten minutes.

This is not correct. Weve been doing it this way for a few years and its very effective.

Nobodies agruing the importance of going after the flat worms also. Ive personally have never seen one and usually only get corals from thriving tanks that I can see first hand.

Don

 

[Jan]

Thanks so much for your feedback, everyone. This is great.

Use Tropic Marine Pro coral cure to dip new arrivals. It will kill both redbugs and aefw's and kill them in 20 minutes. It still wont kill aefw eggs which is why a full QT for at least a few weeks is better

Is this product easy to get? Can I find it in the LFS (which one/s)? As for doing QT for a few weeks, I have a 10 gallon QT going on now, with a not-robust clownfish in it, sg at 1.013 for the next 2-3 weeks. I'm assuming it would not be a good idea to put the frags in this same tank (?). I have an additional 20 tank--empty--that I could use if absolutely necessary but I'm not one of those people who's going to do well trying to keep 3 tanks going at the same time. Burn out will be a factor. If I inspect the frags and see nothing unusual, then do a 20 minute dip with the TMPCC, do you think I will be 80% safe? 90%? Maybe higher than that? Just trying to assess the risks here....

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

 

[ReefferMan]

I dose with interceptor, Man those dam red bugs are hard to kill! I OD'ed the tank and treeted 3 times! once for 48 hr's, big water change, dosed again 48 hrs, big water change, then the last and final dose! and big water change. This all was done with shrimp in the display, i lost some crabs and the cleaner shrimps acted a little lethargic but that was it! The hole doseing the frags ect... Hmm i dont see the point, its a waste of time. After all is said and dosed, there is alwase one or two survivors hiding in a crystalite or somthing! i cant explain it! so i dose once every couple a months or so...... Goood luck all! Happy reeffing

 

[fly guy]

This is not correct. Weve been doing it this way for a few years and its very effective.

It might be an effective dip in ten minutes on corals that arent actually afflicted with red bugs, but I have found differently with infested corals.........as has Dustin Dorton who first used Interceptor, and E borneman who both have done extensive testing with the stuff have found differently. Melev is another one, although he claims 2 hours.

I dont completely agree with bornemans studies as at elevated dosages ive never seen any live past a few hours.....but regardless.......at the same time, he is more educated than myself and put far more effort into his tests than i did

Heres an excerpt from some of bornemans tests.

4. Treatment dosage appears to flexible, if not variable. Given the apparent low toxicity to corals even at elevated dosages, I would suggest a dose level equal or higher (up to 10x) than suggested by Dorton. Dorton suggestes three separate treatments of six hours. Upon examination of treated colonies, six hours appears to be insufficient for a 100% kill rate, while 12 hours seems to be more effective. In the one test where coral mortality was observed, the treatment time was only six hours, and in all other tests, no ill effects to the coral were seen with extended treatment times. It appears that time, and not dosage level, is the critical variable towards providing 100% kill rates for the copepods. Regardless of the dose or treatment duration, all colonies should be carefully examined before they are removed from treatment. For colonies being treated that are too large or densely branched to allow for examination, the treatment should be continued for 24 hours with careful monitoring to ensure that the colonies are enduring the treatment well and that the water does not become fouled from excessive mucus production, other fauna killed during treatment, or other stressors. If these conditions occur, treatment tank water should be dumped into buckets, sterilized by the addition of bleach to the water, and disposed down a sanitary sewage line. The treatment tank should then be refilled with tank water and new drug added to the water.

Jan, as far as your risk assessment and myself being soemone who is very jaded by the pain that aefw's brought to me.....im not even going to give a success percentage. But with a 150% TMPCC dip and magnifying glass and very close inspection, i myslef am confident that it works. Inspect the bases of all corals VERY closely for bite marks. Redbugs are easy to see once youve seen them once. The presence of aefw's is at times easy to see once youve seen them . At times neither is very easy to see if you dont know what you are looking for.

Bottom line is dont take for granted that the best reefer you know doesnt have them. Many people have both of these pests and dont know it. They pawn off coral deaths as rtn or stn instead of figuring out what really killed their coral.

DonW...again....im new here and not trying to be a argumentative jerk...just sharing what i have experienced and trying to help

 

[DonW]

DonW...again....im new here and not trying to be a argumentative jerk...just sharing what i have experienced and trying to help

Couldnt tell ya, but its just plain not accurate. Everyone I get corals from have tanks infested with red bugs and freely admit it. Ive done this hundreds of times with 100% success. Probably because the dosage is closer to 75x the recommended dose.

Don

 

[class clown]

I'm not that high tech. I take a tupperware bowl fill it with sw from my tank. Throw in about a 1/3 of a interceptor tab ground up. I drip acclimate the coral for an hour and put it in the tank. Works just fine.

Don

Don - can you extrapolate on this just a little more so I, Jan, and others can envision fully

• Step 1 - get the tupperware bowl & fill up with sw from tank (about a cup of water would work?)
• Step 2 - grind up 1/3 of an interceptor tab & place in water (btw, are there diff sizes of interceptor or just a single size?)
• Step 3 - place the coral in the bowl & let it sit for an hour while at the same time setting up a drip line from the tank to the tupperware bowl.
• Step 4 - after an hour, take the coral and just plop it in the tank.

Did I capture that correctly? Thanks in advance for the reply

 

[DonW]

Don - can you extrapolate on this just a little more so I, Jan, and others can envision fully

• Step 1 - get the tupperware bowl & fill up with sw from tank (about a cup of water would work?)
• Step 2 - grind up 1/3 of an interceptor tab & place in water (btw, are there diff sizes of interceptor or just a single size?)
• Step 3 - place the coral in the bowl & let it sit for an hour while at the same time setting up a drip line from the tank to the tupperware bowl.
• Step 4 - after an hour, take the coral and just plop it in the tank.

Did I capture that correctly? Thanks in advance for the reply

Close enough but use the big dog pill. Usually I start off with the coral if its a frag or two in a cup of tank water. I presesolve the pill in a little hot rodi water then add it to the cup. Let that sit for about 10 minutes with the coral in it. I'll set the cup in a tupperware bowl and run the drip line into the cup letting it over flow into the bowl for about and hour. If you skip the hot rodi part then your wasting the active ingredient because it takes a long time for it to disslove in SW if its not dissolved its worthless.

Don

 

[class clown]

Close enough but use the big dog pill. Usually I start off with the coral if its a frag or two in a cup of tank water. I presesolve the pill in a little hot rodi water then add it to the cup. Let that sit for about 10 minutes with the coral in it. I'll set the cup in a tupperware bowl and run the drip line into the cup letting it over flow into the bowl for about and hour. If you skip the hot rodi part then your wasting the active ingredient because it takes a long time for it to disslove in SW if its not dissolved its worthless.

Don

Thanks Don - so it doens't disolve in SW too well b/c it in essence is already saturated with salt, right? the only thing I'd be worried about is adding too much RODI and throwing off the salinity of the dip water. Also, heating up the RODI water I'd be worried to throw the temp off. so, with those two concerns in mind, It would be a good idea to 1) use as much little RODI as possible and 2) wait till the RODI cools to about tank temperature before adding it to the dip. Would you agree


Jan - I may probaly hook you up with a freebee drip line if you don't already have one.

 

[DonW]

Thanks Don - so it doens't disolve in SW too well b/c it in essence is already saturated with salt, right? the only thing I'd be worried about is adding too much RODI and throwing off the salinity of the dip water. Also, heating up the RODI water I'd be worried to throw the temp off. so, with those two concerns in mind, It would be a good idea to 1) use as much little RODI as possible and 2) wait till the RODI cools to about tank temperature before adding it to the dip. Would you agree


Jan - I may probaly hook you up with a freebee drip line if you don't already have one.

I do let the rodi water cool back down but were talking very little water here. Also I dont understand the whole low solubility of milbemycin oxime. I got this from my old man, I had him do some checking and a little lab work when the red bugs first started showing up. There is also a lab chemical that can be added to it to give it even more solubility but I cant remember what its called.

Don

Don

 

[class clown]

I do let the rodi water cool back down but were talking very little water here.

perfect - just what I wanted to hear. thx.