lyfsux
Active member
Just wondering if anyone has used prime for detoxifing nitrites and how long does it take to start working.
Prime
- Thread starter lyfsux
- Start date
Help Support Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum:
WaterDogs
Well-known member
There is another thread going on right now about this. The short answer is don't use it because it will interfere with the cycle.
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6497
Dwaine
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6497
Dwaine
Boomer
Well-known member
The short answer on that thread is that is will not interfer with the cycle 
I also don't believe it detoxifies nitrites or nitrates. They have yet said as to how. Finally, nitrites are not toxic in seawater, that is a old myth
I also don't believe it detoxifies nitrites or nitrates. They have yet said as to how. Finally, nitrites are not toxic in seawater, that is a old myth WaterDogs
Well-known member
Sure is funny when people use it or something similar it takes forever for the tank to cycle, theory is one thing but practical experience speaks volumes.
Boomer
Well-known member
Who is speaking theory ?? I have used Amquel for about 2 decades. I never said it may not slow down the cycle, many things can do that, to include elevated Ammonia or elevated nitrite.
WaterDogs
Well-known member
I'm glad we can I agree that it slows down the cycle and thus is not recommendable for treating a cycling tank, I use and recommend Sodium Thiosulfate for treating tap water. Too many beginners start using these types of additives instead letting the natural course of cycling run without interference.
lyfsux
Active member
Nitrites are not toxic? everything everywhere says that it is in high numbers. I had a scat in that tank with high nitrites lasted a day and a half then dead I could not catch it to put it in the old tank.
Boomer
Well-known member
WD
Too many beginners start using these types of additives instead letting the natural course of cycling run without interference
I agree with that 100 %. Its intended purpose is for EMERGENCY.
He is not treating a cycling tank, he removed bioballs. It is like having a dead fish, with elevated ammonia. He has two choices, use something like Prime or Amquel or get the fish out before they are dead. As I said earlier ammonia itself can slow down the process, as can high nitrites. Nitrifying bacteria inhibit each other when there are elevated levels, although I don't consider his really that elevated. I still question that the test kit may be running interference.
I use and recommend Sodium Thiosulfate for treating tap water.
All that does is neutralize chlorine, chloramines is another issue.
Lyf
Nitrites are not toxic? everything everywhere says that it is in high numbers
Where other than an aquarium book ? Hear are some papers on fish that deals with nitrites. It is an old myth. It is the reason behind adding seasalt or table salt to a FW tank to inhibit nitrite toxicity, as it is much more toxic in FW than seawater, as the Chloride ion inhibits nitrite toxicity, which is a 19,000 ppm in seawater. The Ca ion may do the same. Most all fish that die from so called nitrite toxicity really die from post delayed ammonia poisoning.
Pond Salt reduces nitrite toxicity
Overcrowding and overfeeding can lead to elevated nitrite levels, especially in newly set-up ponds. The nitrite ion N02- enters the gills and prevents the blood from carrying oxygen, resulting in nitrite toxicity or by blocking the uptake of nitrite ions (methemoglobinemia). Pond Salt will reduce the toxic effect of nitrite.
Nitrite in seawater
Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite! Until future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, nitrite is not an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.
Also;
Seawater inhibition of nitrite toxicity to chinook salmon. Transactions
of the American Fisheries Society 106: 105–109
and
http://www.ornamentalfish.org/commo...itycriteria.pdf
finally
Hematological Responses of Sea Bass Dicentrarchus labrax to Sublethal Nitrite Exposures
Abstract.—
Hemoglobin, methemoglobin, and blood nitrite concentrations were determined during and after 96-hour exposures of sea bass Dicentrarchus labrax to sublethal concentrations of nitrite in seawater at 26 C. As exposure time or exposure concentration increased, total and functional hemoglobin concentrations decreased in blood, while percent methemoglobin increased. The 96-hour median effective concentrations of nitrite in seawater (EC50, the concentration causing 50% reduction in blood) were 87.2 mg/liter for total hemoglobin (95% confidence limits, 64-118 mg/liter) and 62.4 mg/liter (45-87 mg/liter) for functional hemoglobin. Histochemical analysis of spleen tissues from fish exposed to 50 and 75 mg/liter NO2- N, which reduced total hemoglobin to 17% and 49%, respectively, showed Fe+++ originating from hemoglobin destruction and indicated hemolytic anemia caused by spleen macrophages. Nitrite concentrations in blood were lower than those in test water. Inhibition of nitrite uptake by chloride in seawater may protect sea bass against nitrite toxicity.
Too many beginners start using these types of additives instead letting the natural course of cycling run without interference
I agree with that 100 %. Its intended purpose is for EMERGENCY.
He is not treating a cycling tank, he removed bioballs. It is like having a dead fish, with elevated ammonia. He has two choices, use something like Prime or Amquel or get the fish out before they are dead. As I said earlier ammonia itself can slow down the process, as can high nitrites. Nitrifying bacteria inhibit each other when there are elevated levels, although I don't consider his really that elevated. I still question that the test kit may be running interference.
I use and recommend Sodium Thiosulfate for treating tap water.
All that does is neutralize chlorine, chloramines is another issue.
Lyf
Nitrites are not toxic? everything everywhere says that it is in high numbers
Where other than an aquarium book ? Hear are some papers on fish that deals with nitrites. It is an old myth. It is the reason behind adding seasalt or table salt to a FW tank to inhibit nitrite toxicity, as it is much more toxic in FW than seawater, as the Chloride ion inhibits nitrite toxicity, which is a 19,000 ppm in seawater. The Ca ion may do the same. Most all fish that die from so called nitrite toxicity really die from post delayed ammonia poisoning.
Pond Salt reduces nitrite toxicity
Overcrowding and overfeeding can lead to elevated nitrite levels, especially in newly set-up ponds. The nitrite ion N02- enters the gills and prevents the blood from carrying oxygen, resulting in nitrite toxicity or by blocking the uptake of nitrite ions (methemoglobinemia). Pond Salt will reduce the toxic effect of nitrite.
Nitrite in seawater
Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite! Until future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, nitrite is not an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.
Also;
Seawater inhibition of nitrite toxicity to chinook salmon. Transactions
of the American Fisheries Society 106: 105–109
and
http://www.ornamentalfish.org/commo...itycriteria.pdf
finally
Hematological Responses of Sea Bass Dicentrarchus labrax to Sublethal Nitrite Exposures
Abstract.—
Hemoglobin, methemoglobin, and blood nitrite concentrations were determined during and after 96-hour exposures of sea bass Dicentrarchus labrax to sublethal concentrations of nitrite in seawater at 26 C. As exposure time or exposure concentration increased, total and functional hemoglobin concentrations decreased in blood, while percent methemoglobin increased. The 96-hour median effective concentrations of nitrite in seawater (EC50, the concentration causing 50% reduction in blood) were 87.2 mg/liter for total hemoglobin (95% confidence limits, 64-118 mg/liter) and 62.4 mg/liter (45-87 mg/liter) for functional hemoglobin. Histochemical analysis of spleen tissues from fish exposed to 50 and 75 mg/liter NO2- N, which reduced total hemoglobin to 17% and 49%, respectively, showed Fe+++ originating from hemoglobin destruction and indicated hemolytic anemia caused by spleen macrophages. Nitrite concentrations in blood were lower than those in test water. Inhibition of nitrite uptake by chloride in seawater may protect sea bass against nitrite toxicity.
Last edited:
lyfsux
Active member
That sure is a lot of info I really appreciate it. So if nitrites are not the issue what paramiters sould I be focusing on? Sounds like ammonia is the problem from what I read. Is this correct?
Boomer
Well-known member
Ammoina, yes it is a very common killer. 1 ppm or so for 3-4 days will kill most marine fish, even if the ammonia is removed from the water. You always want 0 ppm unless the tank is cycling with no animals.
lyfsux
Active member
What is the best way to test for ammonia? My Quick dip sticks do not have that test.
My multi test has 2 free ammonia and total ammonia using little round pads.
My multi test has 2 free ammonia and total ammonia using little round pads.
Boomer
Well-known member
Youy should get yourself a good ammonia test kit like a SeaTest or Salifert
Boomer said:
I did not know that....I've been keeping marine aquaria for 20 years, and that's the first time I've ever heard that....wow....See? I guess you learn something new every day, no matter how long you've been in the hobby!
Now, is this a pretty new statement, or have some of you known about this for awhile?
MikeS
Boomer
Well-known member
Mike it has been around for 20 years. It is covered in Spott's book
Seawater Aquariums the Captive Environment
This is a college level test book
Seawater Aquariums the Captive Environment
This is a college level test book
