Probiotics, What?

[rugie]

probiotics

charlyclown, We both are entitled to our opinions, I find yours to be lacking in merit and in gross error. I am attempting to expound on the attributes of beneficial bacteria.flora, it is a tedious undertaking, in that I want to avoid confusion and misunderstandings about the subject matter. it is very unproductive responding to negative, argumentative posts. therefor say whatever you like as I will not respond to you further and if you trash the thread then I will no longer respond to it either.

 

[rugie]

I am going to go thru the thread again and see if I can post some quotes that will be helpful. some times when a lot is written it tends to confuse and scramble a train of thought. I felt that there was/is sufficient references made to probiotics that would then lay the groundwork for non abstract discussion.

 

[rugie]

probiotics (sand bed)

Dan, Yes i can & will.

 

[rugie]

probiotics, what?

wave98, I am not a bob Goemans/Sam Gamble fan, And I do not see evidence of me taking them to heart. you make reference to 'BUY" "BUYING" a product & "using" the product. There is no product persae. If you want a product go to a RF sponsor "ZEOVIT" and Scott will explain, and even huckster some expensive mechanicals that he sells to go with the "PRODUCT". "I" can not give meaningful information for a product that I am not conscience of. the sand bed portion is I am sure well covered in other threads and posted into by many intelligent and experienced members. what info are you specifically looking for? ( I did make a minute reference to bacteria that can be bought at a LFS, online etc,) is this the "BOTTLES? PRODUCTS" you guys are referring to?
What I can say is without a chemist to examine the contents they may be a sham they may be plain water or another liquid. they should contain aerobic,and or anaerobic bacteria for helping to cycle a new tank thru infusion of the liquid into the tank. some of the better known mfgr's CLAIM THEY ADD OTHER STRAINS AS WELL. this would be a great bonus as bacters are not capable of handling conditions other than than the nitrogen cycle.

 

[aquariumdebacle]

tanks....again

 

[Maxx]

you make reference to 'BUY" "BUYING" a product & "using" the product. There is no product persae.

Okay, so there are these bacteria that you've been trying to explain the benefits of introducing to our tanks...and short of Zeovit, there's no one marketing them? How are people who are interested in adding these bacteria to their tanks supposed to aquire them? Where can folks get these pro-biotic bacteria?

Nick

 

[wave98]

Sorry folks, I had only read page 1 when I posted, not having noticed page 2. As to the "flatlining", there is no need to become "horn-locked" on the "differences" here, I hope that we can relax, and enjoy some further discussion. I have to echo Dan's request for better supportive information on the pro's and how-to's of using the products. The first link seemed to give enough information to get people to buy, but fell short of any meaningful explanation of the specific activities that are occuring while using the product. I'm quite neutral on this for now, and I hope it does not sound otherwise.

Self explanatory.

Thanks, and Happy Reef Keeping. > Wave98

 

[Krish]

Let's help Krish feel a little better and try to get along. He's a bit sensitive I think from all that salt smell out his back door.

LOL Barry...I thought you went M.I.A from the forum for a bit I hope all is well with you and that we do have a continued great discussion here. A lot of who I would call "Big Dogs" of the hobby are posting here which means a lot can be learned for beginners like me as well as the "veterans"...Best of luck all with the continued success of this thread...

 

[charlyclown]

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/e_borneman_051098.html

 

[wave98]

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/e_borneman_051098.html

Well, that is absolutely interesting!! I wasn't aware, that "we" were trying to rid our aquariums of bacteria, other than to remove a portion of these bacteria, and the P and Nitrate that they nave "taken-up", as a balancing mechanism for "nutrient control". The article is quite informative, but have I completely misunderstood something????

Thanks for the link "Charly". > Wave98

 

[rugie]

probiotics, what?

here are a few links that may help with understanding Probiotics and their purpose/function. the last link I posted appears to have been skirted over (as indicated by the responses to the thread) it will take some of your time reading the text of the links, some use of your mouse and keyboard. as I indicated prior in this thread if a person really has an interest there are tons of info sites on the web. this would take some effort but if an interested member would find a site that had a good base for discussion, post the url here with comments ( a couple of these have been submitted and I tried to address them) then we could open it up for discussion, "good or bad"---"pro or con" and
accept/reject or sustain it's content.
www.aquanic.org/url/urldisp.asp?alpha=e
www.aquariumpw.com/brands/19.asp
www.aquaticbiologists.com/bio_treatment.html
www.mreed.com/weiss/index.shtml
www.aquabiocleanup.com/products/

 

[Krish]

Thanks for the links rugie...That's quite a bit of reading material which I'm sure is useful. All of the links opened for me except the first two. Are they opening for you?

 

[rugie]

The "old article" by Eric Borneman in many areas runs parallel to what I have been saying, and in some areas contradictory to me and I to him. we do not want to "RID" our aquariums of bacteria You have understood! "misunderstandings". the experts drive a point home to make concrete their guru status in this hobby by declaring that it is understood, or acceptable to aquarists, or that aquarists have "said" or "indicated" such & such.
I have stated prior in this thread that the jury is still out on good/bad bacteria, that good can be bad & vice verse.
his article is fodder for thought and discussion though.

 

[rugie]

www.aquariumfish.net/information/feeding_spirulina.htm
www.aquanutro.com/products/ornamentals/aquariumfish.htm
www.artemia-international.com/tech-larvel.html
www.artemia-international.com/tech_larval_diets.html
www.advancedbionutrition.com/html/prod_aqua_health.html#probiotics
please disregard the artemia url (mix up)

 

[rugie]

All of the links opened for me except the first two.

thanx krish I redidum

 

[rugie]

Okay, so there are these bacteria that you've been trying to explain the benefits of introducing to our tanks...and short of Zeovit, there's no one marketing them? How are people who are interested in adding these bacteria to their tanks supposed to aquire them? Where can folks get these pro-biotic bacteria?

Nick

MAXX,
I have said many times that the web is glutted with info and products for sale online, & LFS, drs foster& smith, banners here on R F, Marine depot, just about anywhere that caters to this hobby.probiotics are "added" thru several avenues. contained on/in food, ( manufactured) or live, gut loading of live food, and into the water, in some cases as a dip ( for absorbation thru soft tissue)(gills). to list a few.

 

[MikeS]

Rugie....do you have a specific method or product you are looking at implementing in your reef?

MikeS

 

[rugie]

MikeS, I am confused by your statement "chase it's own tail" several members posted asking for info on products that are probiotic and how it is used and etc. I really do not see your need to make that statement. I believe it is in poor taste. there is a button for "rate this thread" at the top of the thread, feel free to leave your remarks there. I have tried recently to provide info sources for those who ask. I use tropical science products in my reef, mostly for degrading detritus and as a prophylactic.
is there something more or different I can do here to suit your needs? the reason it may be chasing it's own tail is that there are "jump in -post- jump out"
meaningless jabs just to have something to say posts that do not contribute any thing to the thread. I do not endorse any specific product, because I am not certain of the contents of the alleged probiotics ( I would not want to cause a problem for hobbyists on my word) marc weiss is a millionaire from selling his "stuff" if that is an indication of a good product? does his stuff really work?
of all the members here no one has posted pro or con on his or other biologicals. this thread is a one man show. I think it is time to let it go!

 

[rugie]

Due to lack of interest and meaningful interaction I will no longer contribute to this tail chasing thread. I tried and I failed, but at least I tried. now we can get back to important stuff to bicker about. a sincere thanks to those members who did make an effort. and to krish for total support.

 

[wave98]

Due to lack of interest and meaningful interaction I will no longer contribute to this tail chasing thread. I tried and I failed, but at least I tried. now we can get back to important stuff to bicker about. a sincere thanks to those members who did make an effort. and to krish for total support.

No lack of interest here rugie, I for one would rather you stayed with it, but I understand your frustration. If you are going to remain absent, however, maybe you could leave a bunch of the reading on the subject that you have on your hard drive, for those of us who remained interested.

I hope I did not contribute to your difficulty here, I tried not to.

Best wishes > Wave98