Problem Algae, Help!!

[howejeremy]

I have a recently set up nano saltwater tank that has a few different corals, and a few fish. It is a 15 gallon tank, that has been setup for about 3 months. For the most part, my liverock is doing great, the coraline algae is starting to sprout up in a few spots, but there are a few problem spots of algae that my CUC (clean up crew) won't touch. I have around 6 hermit crabs, 6 snails, 1 sand sifting starfish, and a few sand sifting snails. The algae looks a lot like turf. This is a stupid picture, but for an example it's sort of like this http://reefbuilders.com/files/2010/01/algae-turf-scrubber.jpg
There is also a combination in different spots of string algae, both red and greenish/brown. My phosphate checks out to be 1.0ppm, which is currently being treated. Suggestions on what to do?? THANK YOU. I will try and post real pictures soon.

 

[Krish]

Bummer on the algae, but we all go through it. Every tank has to find its balance and when you have excess nutrients in your system, it fuels different types of algae to grow. You will want to avoid over feeding the tank, over stocking the tank and be sure to use ro/di water (just to name a few). I guess we will need a bit more info on your tank to know which direction to point you in like:

-How often do your perform water changes and of how much water?
-What type of sandbed do you have and how do you care for it?
-Are you running a skimmer or any other forms of filtration (bio-balls, filter pads, sponges etc included as well)?
-Are you using ro/di water?

That should get us going for starters. Also keep in mind that CUC's although they do "clean-up" a bit, they also poop as well so I wouldn't rely on them totally to help with any algae issue.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[howejeremy]

Yes, it hasn't been fun. I have avoided overfeeding, if anything I am underfeeding. From what I know, I am feeding a pretty high quality food (coral frenzy) only every 2-3 days a week. Especially with it being a new tank, I know the importance of not overfeeding.
As for your questions:
I have slacked a bit on water changes so far, because I have no access to RO/DI water. I have done one so far, about 20% around a month ago. Another to come Thursday, if you think its a good idea.
I have a thin layered sand bed of a fine-course sand that I don't do much to other than disturb with my gravel vacuum when doing water changes. The CUC and my mag-float take care of it for the most part.
This is a skimmer-less tank, but runs a tetra- in-tank-filter rated for up to 40 gallons that has a foam filter pad and carbon in it.
As for the RO/DI water, I haven't had access to any, but plan to use I believe to be distilled water (correct me if I'm wrong) from places like Fred Meyer or Sparklets (their home delivery).
Thank you for the help so far,
Please keep sending me ideas, I plan to get some pictures of the algae/tank on here tomorrow.

 

[Krish]

Thanks for the info! For starters, it sounds like you need to bump up the water changes especially since you aren't running a skimmer and also, it's a small tank. The smaller the tank, the more easily things are influenced and changes can take place because of the limited volume. I would do atleast 10-15% water change on that tank every week and would use ro/di water and not just distilled water. Distilled water from what I remember doesn't really remove all of the stuff you want to avoid. As for the filter, that sponge in there should be either changed or cleaned every few days. I'd do it atleast every 3 days or so because the waste it traps is not benefiting you any if you just leave it sitting in the tank. It is still sitting in the tank (trapped in the sponge) rotting and degrading water quality. Decaying waste will shoot up nitrate levels etc so I'd stay on top of keeping it clean or changing it every few days. I think by just doing your water changes more frequently with ro/di water and keeping the sponge clean should help a lot!!

Hope that helps man and good luck!

 

[Chichas01]

I'm curious about your livestock and feeding. What kind and how many fish do you have? There are very few fish that you can keep 'a few' of in a 15 gallon tank. Maybe certain goby's but not much else. I'd also consider re-homing that sand sifting starfish. They usually need quit large sand areas to be kept successfully. On the bright side, If you change 5 gallons a week, that's 33% of your volume and there is a good chance that your problems will clear up fast depending on other factors. You probably do want to consider a decent HOB skimmer though.

 

[howejeremy]

Thanks for all the input. I guess I'm not too sure on what the difference between RO/DI water and distilled really is? Could someone clear this up? I shouldn't have written "a few" fish because that is misleading. I have one false perc clownfish who is right at around 1 in. and one yellow watch-mans goby who is right at around 1.5 inches. One thing when purchasing the sand sifting starfish I made clear was if he would be okay in the long run, and the LFS owner was certain. Right now he is about 1.5 inches across, but I will reconsider his long term residency in my tank. I am planning a water change tomorrow, around 5 gallons and all sponges will be cleaned today. And Krish, I haven't been on top of my water changes like I know I should and will be in the long run because I haven't had access to a decent water supply other than tap. I do work at a LFS (that only does freshwater), but I will look into what treatment process our water goes through there.
Thanks again, and keep the input coming! Its very much appreciated.

 

[akunochi]

Distilled water vs RO/DI water differences if I am not mistaken is this:

Distilled is ran though a basic filter such as a sediment and charcoal.

RO is run through a sediment, membrane, multiple carbon filters, and DI resin.

If I were to guess I would say the nuisance algae is spawning from:

Excess minerals and nutrients/phosphates in your tap water. (Even in Graham I test at 22ppm from the tap)
No skimmer leading to increased test levels
Lack of husbandry with water changes would lead me to believe the sponge filter is also not being tended to at the demanding level they demand.

Add it all together and you just have an excess of nutrients that is leading to algae.


Oh yeah your phosphates are testing at .1ppm when it reality is is probably much much higher. The phosphate is being USED by the algae thus testing lower than it actually is.

Kinda like Macro Algae in a fuge can lead to false test results. The reddish/brown could be cyano and needs more flow.

Cut back lighting, increase flow, run phosban (if possible) and begin using RO.

Invest in a RODI if possible financially at all or try and work a deal with a hobbyist in your area until you can afford one. If you need a unit there is usually a few floating around the classifieds and ebay is always a good source (I recommend water general.)

 

[dpaynter]

Distilled water is made by boiling water and condensing the steam. With the best equipment, this will produce laboratory quality water as close to pure as you can get. With lesser equipment there may be some impurities present such as volatile compounds, but basically all of the minerals are removed. What you can buy from the store is likely to be just as good as RO/DI water. In the long run, RO/DI water will probably be cheaper, but with a small tank such as yours it might not make that much difference.

 

[akunochi]

Distilled water is made by boiling water and condensing the steam. With the best equipment, this will produce laboratory quality water as close to pure as you can get. With lesser equipment there may be some impurities present such as volatile compounds, but basically all of the minerals are removed. What you can buy from the store is likely to be just as good as RO/DI water. In the long run, RO/DI water will probably be cheaper, but with a small tank such as yours it might not make that much difference.

I would argue that the "distilled" water he is buying is lab grade or even close to it. Kinda like how bottled water is "pure."

I totally believe your definition though just not the suppliers.

Also the RO water you get at the store will be nowhere as good as your own unit. Seriously how often do you think the company goes to safeway and runs TDS? Even then what do you think the "acceptable" TDS is for these companies?

I'm sure you follow what I am saying.

Thanks for correcting me on the distilled water definition though. I appreciate it.

 

[howejeremy]

Yes I do see the difference now. I would agree with you, akunochi, that Safeways standard for TDS is probably very very low. For now, I will find someone locally who can sell RODI water because I cannot afford an entire filter right now after setting up the tank so recently. My light cycle is set for 8hrs with the 10,000k T-5's, should I cut it back even more than that? And the tank has 835GPH for water flow between the filter and powerheads, shall I up that too? Thanks everyone for such great input. I appreciate the quick replies as well

 

[akunochi]

You seem to have plenty of turn over....in fact you are very close to SPS flow levels.

I would cut your light cycle back to 4 hours until the algae goes away and then work towards 6 hours.

How much of that flow is from the filter and how much is power heads? It also depends on how you have the power heads placed. You want them blowing water into the water column not against the rocks. This will allow the water to reflect off the glass and other obstructions back into itself allowing chaotic flow.

Here is a suggestion to judge your flow.

Take some flake food and sprinkle it into the tank (just a bit) observe it being blown around your water column and see where it drops to the bottom....now you have a visualization of the dead spots in your tank.

Oh also:

Don't count your filtration GPH into the total GPH for flow. Kinda like how we tell people not to include the return pump from the sump into the flow consideration. That is for filtration and the powerheads are for flow. Two distinct entities.

 

[howejeremy]

Okay, I'm looking at about 625 gph with just the two powerheads in the 15 gallon. I do have one powerhead on each side of the tank blowing above the liverock sort of all pointing towards the middle and bouncing off of each other going in a chaotic pattern. The in-tank-filter also adds to that chaotic disruption occurring pretty much in the middle of my tank. I will try that with the flake food and see where it settles. Also, the light cycle will be cut back today as well and see how well that helps. Cutting back from 8hrs to 4hrs with my daylights won't hurt my corals at all? I have pulsing xenia, zooanthids, frogspawn, green star polyp, and mushrooms.

 

[akunochi]

You should be fine. All those corals have proven pretty hardy.

 

[the6goat6man6]

if water is being moved, whether by circulation pump or filtration, the water is still being moved. Why not count this? do you not count the water in your filtration? I am confussed, I thought this was all part of the whole?

I used distilled for a long time with better results than NSW. Wal-mart 83cents a gal. I bought anywheres from 20-50 gal a week, they loved me, LOL. If you don't have your own RO/DI, I say distilled is the best choice. Also, most distilled jugs have the info on the distillery.

 

[Krish]

I always count my return pump flow as part of my overall turnover. I use to use a 950 gph return which provided me with all of the flow I needed for surface aggitation in my 38 gal. Had I not had that, I would have needed an extra source of flow to provide this more me. Same with my 75gal that my return was hooked up to my sea-swirl. That thing provided nice flow for the tank so for me, I always count my return in my calculations for total flow for the tank. In all honesty though, it's not about a number but rather coverage. Someone with a 30 gal for eg could possibly need a whole less flow than someone else with a 30 gal which is all dependant on placement and even aquascaping. Rocks play a major role in how flow is either distributed or hindered/blocked.

 

[akunochi]

if water is being moved, whether by circulation pump or filtration, the water is still being moved. Why not count this? do you not count the water in your filtration? I am confussed, I thought this was all part of the whole?

I used distilled for a long time with better results than NSW. Wal-mart 83cents a gal. I bought anywheres from 20-50 gal a week, they loved me, LOL. If you don't have your own RO/DI, I say distilled is the best choice. Also, most distilled jugs have the info on the distillery.

Take all of this with a grain of salt and not personally.

First and foremost: You should as a practice look at filtration as filtration and flow as flow.

You do not count it because the flow is uni directional, not aimable and it's primary purpose is NOT flow to transport the nutrients to your corals. It's only true purpose is to move water from point A to Point B for processing. This is just generally accepted in this hobby as the way to look at things. You can look at it any way you want, because you either have enough proper flow or you don't.

Now the Distilled water thing. Take your TDS meter down to your store and run it on the "distilled water" and let me know your results. Now go and run it on a self maintained RO unit let alone a full RO/DI unit. Point proven.

Now lets move onto your argument that you had better results with the distilled water than with NSW. Can I ask where you got the NSW? If from a public aquarium where did they get theirs? How far off shore, distance to the nearest brackish area, and geographical runoff in said area, along with in land businesses and factories situated on the natural run offs.

Now lets say you harvested your own seeing as you are in NY and it is FEASIBLE....

What type of mechanical filtration did you do? Light deprevation cycle? Chlorine and chlorine neutralizer used, UV filter applied, how many sand/ charcoal beds did it run through? Did you test for the trace minerals required by TROPICAL reef systems?

There is A LOT of work that goes into harvesting NSW as you can see and i barely scratched the surface.

I am not trying to be mean or speak down if it came across that way, but rather show that there is a significant difference.

Also in regards to the flow not including filtration it really only has to do with a manner of organizing characteristics of the tanks systems by functions.

P.S.: You bought 20-50 gallons a week at .83 cents. So say 44 bucks rough in head calculation on a large purchase week. You can get a 100 GPD 5stage water general unit with pressure gauge and dual DI for 125 shipped.

 

[akunochi]

I always count my return pump flow as part of my overall turnover. I use to use a 950 gph return which provided me with all of the flow I needed for surface aggitation in my 38 gal. Had I not had that, I would have needed an extra source of flow to provide this more me. Same with my 75gal that my return was hooked up to my sea-swirl. That thing provided nice flow for the tank so for me, I always count my return in my calculations for total flow for the tank. In all honesty though, it's not about a number but rather coverage. Someone with a 30 gal for eg could possibly need a whole less flow than someone else with a 30 gal which is all dependant on placement and even aquascaping. Rocks play a major role in how flow is either distributed or hindered/blocked.

THIS is a better explanation of what I mean. I do not count my return...Krish turned his into a powerhead more or less via a sea swirl.

As a perfect example of distribution. My 75 peninsula has 925 gph split to two return ran under the sand and blowing back toward the overflow. I have a MP40w ES under the overflow going into the water column on the left side. I have one side of a tank that is thriving with SPS and spotlessly clean and the other with cyano due to dead spots. So I need another MP40W ES to compensate for the aquascape running down the middle in order to balance things out. Total I will have a little over 7K in flow in my 75.