Problems with 2 of my fish

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Daorge

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
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13
Location
Marysville, WA
Hi Lee, I am posting here as well per returnofsid's suggestion.

I came home yesterday to see my clown fish laying on a toadstool mushroom, he wasn't moving and I wasn't sure if he had died so I went to grab him with the net and he flopped out. My fiance said he was swimming around fine in the morning so I am not sure what happened, but when he left the mushroom I noticed a small white patch on his side and he could only move the other sides fins. He swam around upside down and sideways for a bit trying to land back on the mushroom and eventually hid under a rock. I also noticed my Purple Pseudochromis (dottyback?) also has a small white spot on his side, he seems to be swimming around and eating fine though. I checked my Ph and Salinity but both seem to be in check. I haven't had time to check my other levels yet. I did a water change 2 days ago and have been staying pretty stable. All the corals in the tank are doing great and are showing new growth but I am not sure what happened with those fish. I will try and get some pictures if today if the Clown hasn't already passed. Oh and I don't think its ick, granted I haven't seen it before but from what I hear its white speckles all over the fish? These fish have a single white spot on their side. a bit smaller than a little finger's nail.

Any ideas?
 
The spot on the clown is about 1/4", the spot on the purple pseudochromis is slightly smaller, I've had the purple pseudochromis since I got my tank up almost 3 months ago. The clown was recently added along with a six line wrasse about 2 weeks ago. The wrasse seems fine and the clown was acting and looking good up until last night. I haven't noticed any other injuries before this and the other fish in the tank all seem ok.
 
Sounds like no quarantine or dipping occurred and a disease got introduced. Will need to determine if bacterial, fungal or protozoan.

Are the spots lumpy like cauliflower, fuzzy like cotton, or flat and surrounded by red?

Going to exclude coral stings for now due to the clownfish being one with symptoms.

A picture would really help...
 
Clownfish are still very capable of being stung by corals, but the usual signs of this are black spots. It's known as Hyper-Melanization. However, this isn't the issue, since other fish are showing this symptom.

I agree with Mike that a better description of the "spot" will help. How are the effected fish breathing? Does their respiration appear faster than normal? Do they appear to be "flashing," or scratching themselves on rocks or sand?

Lee usually checks out this forum at least once a day, but it might take a day or so for him to answer. His advice will be golden, but I'm sure he'll have questions for you. The more information you can give us, about your tank, QT methods, acclimation methods, maintenance schedule, etc., the better we'll be able to help you.
 
The fish arent scratching themselves on rocks or sand, I do a drip acclimation with the fish before adding them into the tank and do a 20% water change every 2 weeks. As far as the breathing I am not 100% sure if its any faster than normal. I haven't seen the clown since last night and I think its hiding under a rock. Once I finish up with work ill try and get pics up asap. As for the spot on the purple pseudochromis, It looks pretty flat to me but I cant tell if its surrounded by red. I'll try and move some rocks around and see if I can find the clown.
 
You sure the fish skin looks clear and shiny in the areas without the white colored patch?
What is the PH, salinity, ammonia measure out to and what brand of kits?

What do you feed them?
If the clown dies, do not toss it until Lee IDs the problem
 
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Its probably Brooklynella, they call it "the clownfish disease" and it seems to be quiet common. Had you QT'd the fish before adding him to the tank?
 
What is Brooklynella?
Brooklynella is a type of saltwater ich caused by an infestation of the ciliated protozoan Brooklynella hostilis. It is most closely and commonly associated with subfamily Clownfish members of the Damselfish family, and therefore is typically referred to as Clownfish Disease. Although this parasitic scourge similar to others requires a fish host to survive, it is not particular in its quest to find one. Angelfishes, tangs or surgeonfishes, wrasses, jawfishes, and seahorses among others will host Brooklynella.

These protozoa reproduce asexually by means of simple binary fission through conjugation, which is why they are able to multiply so much more rapidly than Cryptocaryon (Marine Ich/White Spot Disease), and Oodinium (Velvet/Coral Fish Disease), and why it can kill fish within a few days and even hours upon recognition. For this reason accurate diagnosis and immediate treatment of all fish exposed to these life-threatening organisms is critical.

Symptoms to Look For

Most similar symptomatically to Oodinium, this too is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills first. At the onset fish may scrap up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Fish become lethargic, refuse to eat, and colors fade, but the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced. As the disease progresses a thick whitish mucus covers the body, usually starting at the head and spreading outward, skin lesions appear, and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise.
 
Pseudochromis also got a spot and its a dottyback, not a clownfish...

Brett I was heading in that direction until got more info from him. Unles things change his fish don't have brooky signs. With brooky, the body is cloudy and the fish is in resperatory distress and not eating.
His fish eat, have relatively clear skin and are breathing normal.
 
A photo is really needed here.

Is the 'center' of the white spot still white? I mean, is it a uniform white throughout the spot?

Is the spot(s) getting larger or smaller?

I would still like to have more information about what kinds of marine lifeforms you have in the tank.

I know this may sound a bit 'funny' but corals have a few different defense mechanisms. One is to release chemicals. The corals will perhaps appear 'fine' but in the small amount of water, the fish may be adversely affected. I'd like to address this possibility. If you provide test kit data, it still may not lead to us eliminating this rather remote possibility.

Thus, I would recommend an immediate LARGE (over 80%) water change every day for three days. Just do it. To them it will be like 'low tide.' :) Since it will be large water change, I would recommend you follow these guidelines: How to Make a Safe Water Change

Doing the above should show that the fish are recovering by the second or third day, if it is a poison being released by one or more of the marine lifeforms in your aquarium, OR that there is in fact something wrong with the water (that test kits can't detect). If the water changes are done properly, there is no harm done to fish or any marine lifeforms.

Start this as soon as possible and get us some photos. Also, acquire some mucous coating aid for marine fishes. Don't use it unless you have the fish in a quarantine tank so. . .start a QT up, acquire the mucous coating aid, and begin the water changes.

For mucous coating aids, I like: Pro Tech Coat Marine or StressGuard. Don't add this to your display system, regardless of what the bottle instructions say. Give the water changes a chance to work first. If no visible/noticeable improvement is seen after the third water change, move them to the quarantine tank and let us know and I can provide the next steps forward.

:)

 
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Here is a pic of the purple pseudochromis (dottyback),
DSC_0013.jpg
my PH is at 8.2 and salinity at 1.026, I am not sure what the ammonia level is. I use API tests for most levels. I have a ph probe and refractometer to check ph and salinity. I still haven't found the clown but I will try and move some rocks and see if I can find him. I will also take a pic of the rest of the tank to show what else is in it.
 
I like the tank. However at this point in time there is no room left for the invertebrates to grow. They need thinning. Remember in nature this isn't how they group. A single invertebrate/coral can occupy several square yards of reef, protecting itself from other coral invasion by runners, chemical releases, etc.

From what little I can tell from the photos, the fish is having a surface/skin problem. This is similar to the effects of a poison in the water. I would go with that first, before assuming it is a topical bacterial infection, although an infection is likely a secondary condition trying to get a foothold.

If the water changes don't encourage the fish to show signs of improvement, then move to a quarantine tank and provide an antibiotic treatment along with the coating aid as previously mentioned.
 
Yes, if the problem is a large organic molecule. Activated carbon is good. But the immediate help are massive water changes to show that either the fish is recovering or not. The water change is a diagnostic tool, if you will, in this case.
 
The clown I believe is dead, I couldnt find him after I shifted some rocks around. The purple pseudochromis seems to be doing better though. Seems that water changes have been helping. Thanks Lee and everyone else for the advice!
 
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