Puget Sound Reef Tanks

[nano_reeflover]

Hello!
I am staying with my grandparents who live on San Juan Island right on the water. My favorite thing to do when I'm up here is going down on the rocks and looking in the tide pools and under the rocks. I havent been here since before I was into reefing, so now when I go "tidepooling" I can really appreciate all the life and the array of creatures. This brings me to my question. Why is it that hardly anyone keeps cold water tanks? Today as I was looking around, I was realizing that our local "reefs" arent all that different from the tropical areas. Just some of the things that I found are: pink coralline algae, tons of different/unique crabs, hermit crabs, different kinds of snails, many kinds of macro algae-including a pink kind that may have been branching coralline, shrimps of different colors, polychaetes, opalescent nudibranchs, anemones, starfish, eels, fish, the list goes on! And the best part is no paying for livestock. Also, just think of all the other creatures not in the tidepools. I'm sure local divers wouldnt have a problem with bringing up some cool things for a tank that they find while diving. So now I am rethinking doing a tropical tank and just getting a chiller and going for a cold water tank. ok sorry for the essay oh and I'll try and take some pics if my grandpa will let me use his camera.

-Travis

 

[liveforphysics]

Money is one reason you dont see more cold water tanks. There is some law that says you cant sell native fauna in a pet store (possibily legal if you have some fancy permit I dont know about, I'm not a legal specialist).

Secondly, its appearently much more difficult to maintain a cold water reef for a variety of reasons. I've heard metal tolerence is much lower, and some other factors are more challengeing, but I have not confirmed this myself.

I think your best shot at keeping things effective costwise would be to build your own tank useing multiple layers of glass with pockets of air (or best yet vaccum) between them. This would minimize condensation buildup on the outside of the glass, while lowering the expenses to keep the tank chilled.

I think T5 lighting would definately be a no brainer due to heat concerns.

Good luck, and if you want help building an insulated tank, its really quite a simple task, and I could help you with it.

 

[Kensn]

I know of one fallback is the sweating of the tank, like a cold glass of pop on a hot day....

 

[DonW]

You may want to try and get ahold of Steve Weast sp? before trying to do a cold water tank. I'm sure he can give you all the info needed. His cold water system is very cool.

Don

 

[Elmo18]

You may want to try and get ahold of Steve Weast sp? before trying to do a cold water tank. I'm sure he can give you all the info needed. His cold water system is very cool.

Don

Nice trout Don! Where'd ya hook that one?

sorry for the slight hijack.

Best,
Ilham

 

[nano_reeflover]

Thanks for the replies. Here is the link to Steve's tank: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=810595&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Luke-
How much would an insulated tank run?

 

[plack]

And Chillers are like $700 thats a BIG reason. and theres not that many colorfull fish you could easily buy I would guess also people have done it sucessfully I posted a link long ago showing someone who did it. But no one seemed seriously interested in it
Paul

 

[DonW]

Nice trout Don! Where'd ya hook that one?

sorry for the slight hijack.

Best,
Ilham

If I remember right that was from the Skookumchuck river.

Don

 

[WA coral]

I have a friend that lives right in the water in gigharbor and I have been trying to convince him to start one all he needs is a pump to circulate water. I my self have an extra 55 setup minus the chiller although I picked up one for my main tank for 100.00 just the old refridgeration unit use for a lobster tank. I am debating now weather to start one. all depends on the chiller situation ( if anyone has cheap cheap or donated I will be the test dummie) I have the access to all sorts of stuff just the other day I saw a foot long pipe fish with in hands reach and while fishing pulled up a tiny little octo very interesting as far as I am concerned and would love to give it a shot. free livestock how can you beat that.

 

[nano_reeflover]

"free livestock how can you beat that."

Exactly. I imagine that the cost of a chiller and having to not pay for livestock would eventually break even. Also, everything that I saw was in tidepools and the tidepools get really warm from the sun, but the animals dont die. Maybe they are hardier than we think? I wonder if you could get away without using a chiller if the tank was kept in a cool part of the house, like a basement.

 

[WA coral]

Well I do have a basement but I dont think it will keep it that cool. I do think these animals are pretty hearty but probably not for long periods of upper temps I need to take my digital thermometer and see what temps are where in the sound and check some standing water in a glass in my basement and see what the difference is I know 60 to 70 is a long shot from 35 to 50 I am pretty sure a chiller is mandatory I have heard of lots of people taking things home in their reefs and haveing them last for a while but always dieing. I see that link in one of those posts on here for steves cold reef and I just get inspired. I will keep my eyes peeled for a cheap chiller

 

[Wink]

We ran a 10 gallon for tidepool stuff for awhile - I don't know the exact setup but it involved lots of hose and a mini refridgerator and foam around 3 sides of the tank - temp was around 60 (with room air conditioning too) and we did have condensation problems. It was kinda cool for awhile. We couldn't get chitons to survive, nor cucumbers, the fans didn't make it. We had a couple of small stars, snails, shrimp, hermits, shore crabs - they all did ok. It was all stuff we collected from local tidepools. Only hermits seem to survive at higher temps (73) - we have a 10 with some of those now. Shrimp can survive room temp too.

 

[nano_reeflover]

Cool Thanks for the info

 

[liveforphysics]

The cost of the tank depends on how large you want it. I can cut the glass, and I could draw a rough vaccum between layers, but I cant pull the glass out of air. I made a really nice tank out of some scrap shop window glass a while back that only ended up costing around $25 for materials. For a multi-layer insulated tank, you should figure on at least doubleing or trippleing the cost of building a normal glass tank.

I have a few 1/2 and 1/3hp chiller units as well. I will sell them for $50 each, but they have copper heat exchangers, which means you need to keep the cooling water in a closed loop and draw the heat out via conduction.

I'm working 16hr days right now, and dont really have time to be makeing a tank, but I will draw you up engineered plans and explicit glass cutting instructions to give to a glass shop if you like.

I also one day wish to have a cold water reef.

 

[WA coral]

I have seen those copper heat coils covered in plastic before almost like a coating you dip it in, I am not sure where you get this stuff at but I will look into it also I thought you could houst the coil in one container and put another container around it so the water never mixes but still cools

 

[steveweast]

IMO....cold tanks are more expensive to run than a fish only system (only because of a chiller).....equal to running a regular reef.....and cheaper to run than an sps reef. I would avoid glass and go with acrylic since acrylic is more insulating. My tank has never sweated a drop....and it's over a 100 degrees today. I keep mine at 55 -58. In general though, cold tanks are sooo much easier to run and far more forgiving than the warm water equavilent. Remember, most things out of the Sound are non photosynthetic and require no lighting. I only have a couple T5's over each of my two tanks. Obtaining stock is the only real hurdle...but, since I dive, it's not a problem for me. My fish are out of Southern Australia....but, everything else is out of Puget Sound. Most people shy away from cold water for the wrong reasons....most think that:

1) there is nothing interesting to keep.....WRONG

2) I have to get a huge chiller.....Somewhat wrong. I use a 1/2hp chiller for about 150 total gallons. It's interesting that these same folks don't think twice about buying a bunch of 400 watt halides and $100 dollar corals; but, won't spend $500 for a chiller.

3) I live in Oklahoma and can't get stock....OK that's a good reason.

 

[nano_reeflover]

IMO....cold tanks are more expensive to run than a fish only system (only because of a chiller).....equal to running a regular reef.....and cheaper to run than an sps reef. I would avoid glass and go with acrylic since acrylic is more insulating. My tank has never sweated a drop....and it's over a 100 degrees today. I keep mine at 55 -58. In general though, cold tanks are sooo much easier to run and far more forgiving than the warm water equavilent. Remember, most things out of the Sound are non photosynthetic and require no lighting. I only have a couple T5's over each of my two tanks. Obtaining stock is the only real hurdle...but, since I dive, it's not a problem for me. My fish are out of Southern Australia....but, everything else is out of Puget Sound. Most people shy away from cold water for the wrong reasons....most think that:

1) there is nothing interesting to keep.....WRONG

2) I have to get a huge chiller.....Somewhat wrong. I use a 1/2hp chiller for about 150 total gallons. It's interesting that these same folks don't think twice about buying a bunch of 400 watt halides and $100 dollar corals; but, won't spend $500 for a chiller.

3) I live in Oklahoma and can't get stock....OK that's a good reason.

I love your tank! Thanks for puting up those pics. I have a question for you. What do you feed all the animals in your tank?

-Travis

 

[steveweast]

I feed them the same stuff that my warm water tank gets.....mysis, scallop, squid, and krill. The thing is though.....since nothing is photosynthetic......I have to feed alot. Each of those anemones will eat a whole scallop or shrimp every other day.....and cyclopseeze is fed to the small colonizing anemones. There are also huge swarms of mysis out there in the Sound....and I always bring back a few buckets of those when I dive there.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Steve,
Is it possible for you to visit Seattle and share some your experience?

 

[nano_reeflover]

A few pics: