quarantine death trap

[macdawg]

i noticed some little white spots on my powder brown, figured i had the plague in my tank, so i started a qt tank. i removed my fishes from my main display tank and put them in there, mostly water from my display with some about 50% fresh new saltwater. i heated it up to the same 76 degrees my display tank was, i tested the water, almost identical parameters asmy main. so i slowly started adding my fish in there. they seemed a little sluggish but i did have to catch them so i figured they were stressed out. so no lights or nothing, i added a few pieces of pvc pipe and some fittings for the gobies , waited and hour or two and tested water parameters again. next day after work i found almost all my fish dead. so yesterday i did a 35 % water change, lost another fish last night, ich was on a couple but it wasnt bad enough to kill the fish, i havent added any fish to my main for over three weeks, any one have any thoughts, only fish left are my clowns and a blenny and a goby.....this whole death thing sucks, i should have been a little more diligent in my qt section, prior to adding to my main.

 

[IPisces]

Yeah it is depressing, isnt it!
My first question when reading this, was "did you acclimate them to the QT or just put them in?" 50% new water is possibly enough to cause it.
Also what are the water parameters. Ammonia, nitrates, nitrites in the QT? Did you have a sponge filter to add to the QT for biofiltration?

Oh welcome to Reef Frontiers. I hope we can help you.

 

[IPisces]

Sorry,
how big is the DT and how big is the QT?

 

[HUNTER01975]

sad please let us know what you found..I am new as well and am getting close to setting up..

 

[NanaReefer]

Possible that the fish used up the oxygen they needed while under stress. When stressed their respiration increases 10 fold. Was the QT much smaller then the DT?

 

[TJL]

Definitely a hard pill to swallow in losing our beloved fish... noobie or seasoned Reefkeeper alike. On the oxygen issue this a big deal on QT-ing fish with Ich, suffocation is usually the cause of death from having the parasite literally suck the life from them through their gill rakes. Freshwater dips then/or directly into a Copper treatment to dislodge parasites from gills is imperative to start recovery. Tangs and B-flys so-called Ich-magnets should always be fully treated for parasites before introduction into any DT. Fishes such as Wrasses are very Ich free/resistant since they bury or form a mucous cocoon to sleep but are prone to Gill Flukes and intestinal parasites that should be dealt with as well since Tangs will be the ones to suffer (being poop-eaters). Anyway, a very harsh learning lesson to go through but hopefully will put you on a better path to success.

Cheers, Todd

 

[macdawg]

my display tank is 95 gallon bowfront, has been set up for almost three months, the quarantine tank is only 15 gallon, that is what the (aquarist) told me to use, i thought it was a little small but i went ahead and used it. i did acclimate all of the fish that went into quarantine, all parameters were almost exact with my tank, 8.2 ph, the blue green dot i think its 9-10,im not sure what the number is as i am at work, my salinity was at 1.024..both tanks, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, and 0 ammonia, 0copper. water temp both tanks was 76 degrees. i did have to chase them around a little and kind of corden off some of my display just to catch them. but i tried to do it very slow and steady so they wouldnt swim to hard or get to stressed out, im just devastated, the fish were awesome and they looked awesome swimming around, dipping and diving through the rocks. im just heartbroken about all of this, i should have just left them in my display tank and tried to treat them in there. the whole qt imo is just a waste of 500 and the precious life of exotic animals!!!! i did take the filter off of my sump pump for my skimmer and put it in there hoping the bio filtration from it would be suitable, i just dont understand, they were all swimming around like nothing was wrong, a little lethargic but not like they were dying.

 

[macdawg]

also the parasites they had were not in masses on them, just a few spots or specs. not like the ones i see online, just looked like a few pieces of sand that would not come off. with their slime coat i believe that no sand should stick to them, so after about three days the white spots were gone and my powder brown started to do the itchy scratchy on the sand i immediatly pulled him out and took him down for further diagnosis. they said ich. that is the only reason for this qt tank. so i really cant believe that the ich sucked the life out of them as i caught is so early in the first stages.

 

[macdawg]

this will be post #5

 

[TJL]

What you see on the outside of fish is not nearly what are more than likely on their gills, and what is normally the cause of death. A 15g QT is a decent size for most fish that you'd quarantine and treat. I'd go bigger for Tangs over 3"+ though. Keep us informed to how its going.

Cheers, Todd

P.s. For a fish or two, not a whole tank full

 

[macdawg]

i see todd you also had the ich. i have lost both tangs and both angels, my small damsel, my royal gramma, and two gobies... hopefully no more dead loss. it is killing me, i dont really know what to do, oh my wife text me a little bit ago and told me my mandrin has passed. so im left with one goby one blenny and 4 clowns. i should have just left all my fish in the main tank and started dosing malichite i think.

 

[macdawg]

my powder brown was maybe 2.5 inches, my black nox about the same and my coral beauty about the same also, both gobies about 3 inches and my blue hippo tank maybe 1.5 inches, dam and royal, both small around 1-1.5 inch, mandrin about 2 inches.

 

[macdawg]

only reason i put all my fish in here that is what the (pro) told me to, apperantly they taught him this in marine biology school. my thought was it was to small for the fish, but everything in my tank was also copesetic. they all liked each other with no fighting or dominacy, gobies mostly just hid, except my yellow sleeper...i think he thought he was a clown fish, that is where and who he hung out with and ate mysis shrimp from the top and sand off the rocks...strange little bugger but awesome. the only fish that was bullied at all was the blue hippo tang as he was the smallest and the newest...

 

[Peppie]

Just reading through some of your info.
You had way to many fish in a 90 gal tank that had only been up for 3 mo. That will cause a huge amount of stress.
IMO you should only have 3 smaller fish per 20 gal Hosp. tank.
All of those fish in a 15 gal Hosp. tank was bound to end in disaster.
You really need to think about the changing LFS. It seems they are more concerned with selling you fish than they are interested in the health of your system.

 

[dawguy]

Was this a brand new 15 gal tank? When I purchased my 20 gal QT from petsmart, I had to rinse it out a number of times. That was some kind of an oily residue that kept filming up on the water surface. As mentioned by others, if that many fish in a 15 gal, plus them being stressed and sick, an air pump is probably a must.

 

[macdawg]

My fish did awesome in the 95 plus a 40 gallon sump, there was plenty of room for everyone as they were all smaller fish, i believe the same with the qt, i believe it was to small to house that many fish, but i made sure they all had plenty of room to hide. they may have been stressed but all of my fish get along great, my gobies hid out for the most part, seeing the aurora and the blue spot usually only when feeding, the angels and tangs swam to and from and through the live rock caves and dens i made, the clowns usually hang around the corners and the walls on both sides and the front bow. my fish were perfectly healthy and doing great until i introduced( i believe) the ich virus, and they were still doing good, feeding like normal, and playful, except the powder brown, playing itchy scratchy, and it was leaving like not really wounds on his sides, but like road rash. the other fish were not really affected, and i have been feeding vitamin c to all fishes. as barrier told me that it will help with the health of the fish. the colors of all fish was spot on and fantastic. the nox only had three little white dots on his right side, the coral beauty had one white spot with a tail on a clamp fin, blue tang didnt have any spots until right before i moved him to qt tank, he had one behind his right eye, gobies and clowns had none. only reason i moved them to the qt is i was told that they could carry it in there gills(cause they have a thick slime coat) im just going by what i learn from other people that have or have had this problem, everyone has told me to quarantine my fish. so that is what i was trying to accomplish. 34 inches total in fish with 135 gallon capacity, that is 4 gallons per fish in my main tank, the rock i used was out of an established tank, all 140 lbs total. the sand i used was already bacteria nutrified(live) sand. i waited almost a month before introducing my first fish. i never had any spikes in my ammonia, or nitrates, or anything for that matter, never an algea bloom, and i tested daily. i put my water quality in my display better than AP, or BR. AND DEFFINATELY BETTER THAN PETCO. so as for stress i belive my fish had no stress, i introduced them slowly and mythodically. only test i never could get as accurate on my numbers as i wanted to was my alk, only cause i cant find any kits locally, so i have been using the dip strips.

 

[Peppie]

The history of your system was not given in your prior posts. Given the info that you did made is sound as though you had started the tank from scratch. That is why I stated your tank was to young for that many fish.
Lets touch on that for a moment. You said you have 34'' of fish in a 135 gallon system. "THEY" say you should keep 1'' of fish for every 5 gallons of water. I dont know who "THEY" are or how they came up with that number. There are many variables that contribute to how many inches of fish you can keep. Going by "THEIR" numbers 34'' X 5 = 170 gal. That in my book is a very heavy bioload.
So lets say you have 8 weeks to add appox. 15 fish. This allows apporx. 2 fish every 2 weeks. JMO that is a little to much to fast.
Also JMO the API test kits are not real accurate and can be unreliable.
If you plan on buying hundreds of dollars of fish you should consider buying better test kits.
You should also set up a proper QT system, and have a Hosp. tank system at the ready.

Your DT will now have to go fishless for 8 weeks to be sure that ich is no longer in the DT.

 

[IPisces]

The # of inches of fish per so many gallons of water, is not a good way to determin how many fish you can put in any tank. The type of fish for any tank should be determined by the fishes needs. Such as the australian assessor basslet. It can be kept in a very small tank or as big of a tank as you want. They are a cave dweller and do not swim miles a day. Tangs on the other hand, do a lot of swimming and need a lot more room. Preferably in length. 6ft-8ft or longer tank. Depending then on how well you take care of the tank, how often water changes are done and how big and how good the mechanical filtration you have is, you could keep say 5 large 8"-12" fish and a few smaller 3"-5" at approx 50"-60" total in an 8', 240 gal tank. Thats over 1" per 5 gals. You can not put a fish that is going to get 9"-12" long in a 4ft tank.
I have 14" of fish in a 54 gal tank. Thats 1.25" per 5 gals. But that is 7 fish at no more than 2" long on most of them. The female clown is 3".
So I would re-think the fish you want to put in the display tank. Of course after the 8 week fallow period to hopefully kill the ick.
Anyway, there are a lot of really cool fish that would be great in that tank.
1st lets try to save the ones you have in QT.

 

[IPisces]

I order salifert test kits on line. If your interested, I can pm you where. Some of the LFS's that cater to saltwater only...will have good test kits usually.

Who do you still have in qt?
How is the QT set up?

This is what I do. In my QT/Hospital tank I use a sponge filter. Thats with an airline running thru it.
A regular hang on the back filter with carbon, unless I am treating with copper or meds. It should be rated for a bigger tank. I have a 55 gal qt. I use a generic brand filter rated for 75 gal along with the sponge filter and small air stone both hooked up to an airpump. The sponge from the filter I keep in the sump of the DT so it is full of bacteria for biofiltration. I also keep other sponges in my sump and those when needed I put in the HOB filter. If your going to use meds you dont want to use carbon until you want to remove the meds from the water. I also use a couple small powerheads to keep surface water moving.

This has worked for me.
Others may have done it differently

 

[extremecoral]

I don't know what you setup your tank to be.... reef+fish tank? or fowl tank? if your tank is "coral-less" why not try to put copper or do salinity-method directly in the main tank instead of transferring them to the QT. Less stress for the fish and definitely you don't to put want all the fish in the same 15g tank. Unless you have coral/ cured live rock in the tank. Hope it helps for the future.