quarantine death trap

[NanaReefer]

I don't know what you setup your tank to be.... reef+fish tank? or fowl tank? if your tank is "coral-less" why not try to put copper or do salinity-method directly in the main tank instead of transferring them to the QT. Less stress for the fish and definitely you don't to put want all the fish in the same 15g tank. Unless you have coral/ cured live rock in the tank. Hope it helps for the future.

Copper will kill any and all inverts plus it remains within the rock making the tank uninhabitable to anything but fish.

 

[TJL]

Macdawg, any updates ? I'll shoot you a pm with my # if you'd like to talk QT off Forum, if not lots of good advice going on here. Also a question brought up is this going to be a Reeftank or FOWLR system, if latter keeping your S.G. at a lower level (1.016 - 1.019) will be fine for fish but more difficult for parasites/ invertebrates with exception of some shoreline Hermits and Snails which can tolerate it.

Cheers, Todd

 

[macdawg]

the main plan was reef, i have been getting alot of coraline on my rocks in preparation, lots of bright light. thaks todd i might give you a shout, im down to three clowns, as of this morning before work, water tests still checking out perfect, im really not sure what is going on, i really dont think my three little clowns decided to go hostile, but you never know i guess, from what i uderstand they are very deterent from ich, unlike the others, i thought gobies were also. so i am thinking of just shutting down the qt and doing something else, it is just a real drag, and i only have myself to blame, but i am learning a valuable and costly lesson, i just wnated to have an awesome display with fish in the tank fast, thats why i went with already prepped and cured rock that has been in a fowlr tank and live sand straight from the carribean. so i guess the lesson is to go a hell of a lot slower and medicate every fish in qt one at a time and then introduce them to the display after at a minimum of one month. i never want to endure something like this again. im almost thinking maybe they got the red velvet or something also, for all of them to just die, back to back, it has my mind blown. and no one really has a solid answer, all the pros test my water quality and says that is spot on for suitability. so im just not sure. i will probably just use the small tank, and prep it with water from my display, and take a couple pieces of live rock and just make a small tank for the clowns for the next 8 weeks and keep dosing copper and meds. then i will just chuck the live rock as it will be unsuitable for any other animals except fish.

 

[Peppie]

Dont beat yourself up. You are not the first and only to make this type of mistake.
Your plan to make the clowns comfy in the 15 for the next 8 weeks in a good solid plan. Be sure to do weekly water changes. A small tank will go bad in a matter of hours.

 

[user 26995]

Yeah, we have all been there. I think I stocked my 180 a little too fast and a few of my fish came down with ick. I lost 6 fish. Couldnt catch them to get them to qt before they passed.
You have a great community here now to help out with anything.
Sorry for all the loss's and good luck with the clowns.

 

[Ichthys]

Macdawg
Just wanted to say I am sorry for your loss, losing fish is hard, I know I was pretty depressed when I lost a few when moving tanks. I cant imagine losing as many as you have, truly feel bad for ya. Hope things get better
Ichthys

 

[macdawg]

does anyone know if inverts can carry the ick virus, just wondering if i should pull my anenome and emerald crabs also. the anenome crab is the last animal that actually went into the tank, and three more pieces of live rock, maybe this is where the virus came from, im not sure. if anyone knows please let me know i really dont want a reinfestation. also as my tank sits fallow, should i keep all pumps and everything operational. i would think so but you never know. thanks chris

 

[user 26995]

Read this
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/
It will explain the live cycle of the parasite.
Yes you will want to keep your system running and continue water changes and feeding coral. You need the bacterial filtration to continue so it can handle the bioload when you reintroduce the fish.

 

[macdawg]

I would like to thank everyone for all the help, i am really glad i found this forum and for the most part it seems like most are here in seattle region. so maybe sometime i can hook up with some of you and check out your displays and maybe get in on some of the coral that you all have. i stopped by barrier reef and seen a couple pieces of coral that wer puching a thousand dollars...man thats big money. everything would have to be perfect in the tank 100 percent of the time for an investment like that. again i would like to thank you guys.

 

[NC2WA]

macdawg,

if you want to head north (to Bothell), you are welcome to check out my 375gallon in the wall tank...there are several reefers that are around here that you could make a day of it.

 

[TJL]

does anyone know if inverts can carry the ick virus, just wondering if i should pull my anenome and emerald crabs also. the anenome crab is the last animal that actually went into the tank, and three more pieces of live rock, maybe this is where the virus came from, im not sure. if anyone knows please let me know i really dont want a reinfestation. also as my tank sits fallow, should i keep all pumps and everything operational. i would think so but you never know. thanks chris

Hey Chris, to answer a few of your ?'s above; Inverts, Live Rock etc... could possibly introduce Ich in its free living stage but requires a fish to host for long term survival as short as their life is. Thus going Fallow in the DT for the anguishing long 8-10 week period will kill of 99% of known Ich parasite strains. Run your DT as normal except cut way back on feedings or just enough to keep good bacteria alive and ready for re-introduction of Fishes. If you keep media/sponge in DT's sump for use in a QT do not place back into DT before Fallow period is completed and it through hypo-salinity and or Copper treatment. If Copper is used either discard it or run a Copper removal media after treatment. Kirk (NC2WA) are only 4 miles distance so if you feel like a trip/visit North let us know.

Cheers, Todd

 

[NC2WA]

Chris,

+1 what Todd said, my tank is always open for visitors...

here are some links to what Todd was talking about:

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/copper-treatment-use-problems-27005/

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/hyposalinity-treatment-process-27155/

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/quarantine-process-27022/

 

[dnjan]

thats why i went with already prepped and cured rock that has been in a fowlr tank and live sand straight from the carribean.

Could you elaborate a bit on the "live sand straight from the carribean"?

First off, I'm wondering what was still live by the time you received it. And Second, the remaining "live" things could have included some nasty stuff.

 

[macdawg]

its ready to go sand, comes baged still with the water in it, its the put the sand and rock in and add fish within 24 hours, i was told is it tagged and bagged and sent with a shelf life, bag had dates on it so, that was the only reson i used it. my tank has been running for a few months now. and i have not had any problems with my substrate, i think the virus was introduced by live rock, or some inverts that i put in there, as nothing had signs until after i put these things in. as i added another 25 lbs of live rock. i also put in an anenome crab and an emerald crab, i didnt really think that any of this could harbor the ich virus but i was wrong. the crabs are still in the tank just hanging out all by themselves.

 

[lsufiregal]

Read the stickies. Ich is not a virus, it is a parasite. It has a life cycle that you must interrupt if you want your system to be ich free. This means leaving your tank fishless for several weeks. Some people use UV sterilizers but it isn't as reliable as eradicating ich from your DT and treating your fish in a hospital tank, then QTing EVERY new fish for several weeks while watching for spots. The stickies are pretty clear and give you the specific time lines. Good luck.

 

[lsufiregal]

And inverts do not carry the parasite. As far as live sand goes, it could have been introduced that way if it was bagged less than 6 weeks ago. I am with the other posters here, not sure what could be left alive after all that time in a bag. No gas exchange, temp not maintained. I am skeptical, but even if things survive, how do you know it is only the good things that survive?

 

[dnjan]

Another consideration is that stress can make fish more susceptable to parasites. Healthy, unstressed fish can be more resistant while a sudden stress (adding a bunch of new stuff, adding/changing rockwork, etc.) can make fish more susceptable to parasites that are already in the tank.
The parasites could have been in the sand, and the recent changes could have brought on the stress that led to the outbreak.

I am not a big fan of the "instant reef" approach. Patience is difficult - one spends all that money and then wants to see something for it.
But sometimes going slowly (putting in the live rock and sand, giving time to make sure you like the arrangement, adjusting your waterflow to to make sure you have good coverage, etc.) has its advantages.
Plus, it gives time for the establishment of a good pod population.
And time to make sure there are no unwanted hitch-hikers (easier to catch a mantis shrimp before you have other things that might get into the same trap).