Questions about coralline algae

[vetschroger]

About a week ago I introduced 2 emerald crabs and about a dozen blue leg hermits into my tank. Since then I have noticed a large section of my rock has been stripped down to bare rock:frusty:. These rocks had some bubble algae and slight hair algae before this. They were also covered in coralline algae. So my question is will either of these types of crabs take out coralline algae? I was not aware that either of these crabs ate coralline algae. Is there anything else that may be causing my coralline algae to disappear at such a high rate? I have watched this area and the only thing that I have noticed is that a few of the hermits are in the area and my cleaner shrimp has been hanging around that spot more often. I am not for sure where the emeralds are at.

 

[the6goat6man6]

As far as I know, which might not be much,LOL, They shouldn't touch coraline. They may have knocked it off the rocks while picking around. Not to worrie, as long as coraline is in there, alive, it will grow back. It's one of those things that just needs tobe in the system, well as long as it's needs are met(light, food).

Someone else will chime in to confirm, but for now I would strees too, much. Personally, crabs are best in the fuge, except maybe the emeralds. Crabs are oppertunistic(?sp?) eaters, if they can catch it, LUNCH. If you are useing them as scavengers then they will get it in the fuge.

 

[Krish]

Never really heard of crabs eating coralline. Sea urchins definately, but never heard that about crabs. I guess maybe in the process of eating the algae some of it was removed which I guess is possible. The thing with coralline though is once there are spores of it in the tank, it will spread once its requirements are met so I wouldn't worry too much. A sea urchin mowing it's way through a patch of coralline for example will consume quite a bit, but at the same time, they will be dispersing it throughout the tank. I'd keep an eye on things though and see if the coralline in other areas of the tank is started to dissapear as well. If so, then it might be something other than the crabs causing it to receede (sp) which could be anything from water quality issues, in-sufficient alk and calcium etc. There is an article on the home page on coralline if you want to read more about it and also, a link at the bottom of it where we discussed the topic a bit.

 

[thatguy559]

what are your water parameters?

 

[vetschroger]

Sorry about the slow reply. I have been sick for a week now. I tested my parameters and they are: Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates all 0. PH 8.2, SG 1.025. I do not have any other test kits available. I was observing the tank though tonight and I saw several of the hermits in an area, they seemed to be eating algae off the rocks and took off everything down to bare rock except where my purple coralline is. I had some green coralline that went with the algae. I cannot get a picture until tomorrow because they were under actinics when I spotted them and it would not show up well on the camera.

 

[thatguy559]

Your big ticket items are alk, cal, mag if any of those are out of wack then the coraline algae will start to recede

 

[WABlonde]

So silly question but I was always told that other algaes couldn't grow on Coralline. So if there was bubble and hair algaes in that particular spot, could it be that maybe there wasn't coralline???

 

[mal1099]

dont you also need good lighting for coralline algae to grow? Also like others have stated you need to check your cal alk and mag and make sure they are good or it wont grow either.

 

[Krish]

So silly question but I was always told that other algaes couldn't grow on Coralline. So if there was bubble and hair algaes in that particular spot, could it be that maybe there wasn't coralline???

Never heard of that one before LOL! I've pretty sure I've seen tanks with coraline on the rocks which has hair algae growing on top of it. Quite possibly the coralline would die off if covered by another algae though seeing it won't be getting as much light, but honestly never heard of that one before. Here's a picture I grabbed off of the net real quick with a rock that looks covered in coralline with hair algae on it

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_puTVILFyI...AALs/pzhCvu-Va6Y/s320/Marine-Hair-algae-2.jpg

dont you also need good lighting for coralline algae to grow? Also like others have stated you need to check your cal alk and mag and make sure they are good or it wont grow either.

I think coralline likes the bluer side of the spectrum if I remember correctly, but not 100% sure on that.

 

[thatguy559]

i have coraline growing all over my tank they will accept and type of lighting. my lighting is plasma and its on the 10k spectrum. i also have had it grow in my fuge when i just had a clip on incandescent light 40W house bulb

 

[Krish]

i have coraline growing all over my tank they will accept and type of lighting. my lighting is plasma and its on the 10k spectrum. i also have had it grow in my fuge when i just had a clip on incandescent light 40W house bulb

Yea, coralline will grow pretty much anywhere with any type of lighting granted is alk and calcium levels are in balance, but the intensity of the lighting will usually determine which colors will grow where. You can clearly see this here in the wild. Certain colors you seem to find only in lower lit areas. I remember reading here a while back that purples (I believe it is) loves the bluer spectrum, but could be wrong. It's been ages! My tank had a lot of coralline covering the rocks when I ran pc's. When I switched to halides, most of it faded away. I think probably 6 months or so in it never really came back. It's crazy! The reason alot of people "lose" their coralline after switching to more intense lighting is sometimes, it has to adapt to the increased lighting. On that same token, it all depends on the strain as some just do best in lower lit regions (imagine 50+ feet under water) as well as some do better in more intense lighting (basically at the water's surface). Coralline itself won't grow where spores of it aren't present so you really can't expect to have perfect water chemistry and have coralline grow if there aren't any spores there to spread. What we use to do is dive up whatever here....Broken bottles, pieces of rock, cans etc and just scrape the shavings into our tank. Let the flow distribute it and let it spread which is how it makes it into our sumps for eg as mentioned. In any event, light intesity does play a major role in which type of coralline you will have growing which is pretty much facts. Color spectrum, I'm still a bit on the fence on although I do remember some talk about it here. May have to get Boomer to chime in.

 

[Krish]

So, I decided just to do a quick google search on "light intensity and coralline" as well as "color spectrum and coralline". Here are some of the first things that popped up just for "general knowledge" on coralline if it interests anyone. Seems intensity and color does effect coralline as I mentioned. To what extent, I guess is debateable, but just thought I'd toss it up.

Surprisingly, many species of coralline algae actually prefer low to moderate light. In many very dimly lit tanks, coralline algae completely overtakes rocks, pumps, and even the back glass. If you have moderate to low lighting, moderate to low light coralline algae species will dominate your tank

from here How do you encourage coralline algae growth?

To simplify the outcome of most of the debates: it appears that some types of Coralline Algae prefer higher lighting, while others prefer lower lighting. Many aquarists have found that, as their tank lights get older and the spectrum and intensity fades, some of their Coralline growths actually increase and grow higher in their tanks. They also found that these growths die off in the more well lit areas and increase in the lower and/or more shaded areas of the tank when the lights were replaced, while other types increased under the more intense lighting.

from here How to Grow Coralline Algae in a Saltwater Aquarium

Lamps with a higher red spectrum tend to grow undesirable algae while the blue spectrum benefits corals and coralline algae more.

from here Reef Aquarium Lighting

While tanks with live rock can get by with regular flourescent full spectrum lights they will do better with flourescents and actinic lights (blue light). It really depends on how well you want the coralline algae to grow. Certain types of coralline algae seems to grow better with higher amounts of actinic lighting.

http://www.fishlore.com/aquarium_light.htm

 

[Krish]

Sorry about the slow reply. I have been sick for a week now. I tested my parameters and they are: Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates all 0. PH 8.2, SG 1.025. I do not have any other test kits available. I was observing the tank though tonight and I saw several of the hermits in an area, they seemed to be eating algae off the rocks and took off everything down to bare rock except where my purple coralline is. I had some green coralline that went with the algae. I cannot get a picture until tomorrow because they were under actinics when I spotted them and it would not show up well on the camera.

Did you ever get a chance to get some pics??

 

[Herefishyfishy]

IMHO ( In my highly experienced and alway right opinion) Coraline will grow any time there is a good supply of Ca and Carbonates. Seems to do best in a mature system but that could be a simple matter of time.
Lighting can be blue, white, high, low, flow same lack of requirements. It doesn't like to dry out or get too hot...

 

[Krish]

IMHO ( In my highly experienced and alway right opinion) Coraline will grow any time there is a good supply of Ca and Carbonates. Seems to do best in a mature system but that could be a simple matter of time.
Lighting can be blue, white, high, low, flow same lack of requirements. It doesn't like to dry out or get too hot...

What do you mean Mike when you say it doesn't like to dry out or get too hot?? Do you mean exposed to air?? I agree with the fact that coralline will grow in blue light, white light, intense lighting, dim lighting etc, as coralline has the ability to adjust to changes in lighting and spectrum if its most desired conditions aren't met. Alot of things in the ocean can and will adapt to changes. How well it will grow after these changes take place will probably vary as some do prefer more intense lighting whereas others like lower light so some may infact just fade away. That is something you can't get around. Also, you have to remember corals use quite a bit of the blue spectrum of lighting from what I can remember and coralline really isn't much different. How much it uses, beats me LOL! Definately though, you need good water chemistry to have it grow no doubt, but intensity will effect the different sprecies/strains of coralline. One that dominated your tank with minimal lighting may "dwindle" with the change of more intense lighting which on that same token, another species of coralline that you may have spores of in your tank may take off and start to grow becoming the more dominat strain/species of coralline. Someone may look at this and say my coralline always grew well under any lighting.

Anyways, that's what I get from it. I'm a little dumb I know LOL!! From personal experience though, I've experienced this. I had all sorts of colors of coralline under pc's. Changed to halides, and pretty much only one color dominated my tank and the rest pretty much faded away and I always kept great water chemistry. OCD wouldn't allow any less :lol:

Edit: I can dig up some pics to show what I mean if you like with the rock and changes that took place when I changed lights more than 6 months in.

 

[Krish]

A little something from Garf on color...

Coraline algae loves actinic blue actinic light and hates white light. To give your coraline a boost, increase your blue light and decrease your white light. Coraline grows best deep in the ocean where only blue spectrum light can penetrate. When starting a reef tank, allow the blue actinic bulbs to run 24 hours a day for two weeks.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Coraline grows best deep in the ocean where only blue spectrum light can penetrate...

This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Garf, often offering false data as fact. (such as astarina stars being predatory) Sea water absorbs all but blue color, the reason it looks blue. The deeper in the ocean, the less red light available, but coraline is found at all depths, in fact most common in tide pools. Water itself due to light properties is slightly blue to colorless. In an indoor swimming pool appears blue due to water being intrinsically blue. The blue color becomes visible when we look down into, or through, a large volume of water.


The blueness of water is very apparent when diving. As one goes deeper, lower energy wavelengths penetrate the water less, eventually leaving only blue light from the higher energy end of the spectrum. Even when using an artificial light source, such as a flash, the objects close to the observer appear as their real color, whereas the objects further away appear to be blue."

Blue wavelengths are absorbed the least by the deep ocean water and are scattered and reflected back to the observer’s eye.

Anyway,,, Coraline likes stability and calcium. It also likes Alk. What it hates is changes. Thus does best in a mature system. My fasdtest growing Coraline ever was in a tank up five years, fed with both a CaRx and a Kalk stirer. Almost took a chisel to remove it and rocks were all thick purple and pink. I intentionally added an urchen to help keep it in check. The SPS grew very fast too. The lighting was 250w halides in the spectrum of only 12K

 

[Krish]

Good info Mike! So if most colors are filtered out in the water besides blue (if I am reading your post correctly) then wouldn't it be safe to say that the blue spectrum is most important for good coralline and coral growth seeing it is the color pre-dominently availabe in the wild? Seems logical enough to me which will lead me to believe that "blue" will provide better growth than pure whites or other colors would.

As for the tank being mature I agree. More stability always yields the best results with anything in this hobby, but not 100% necessary as you can see below. That's a shot of an old member (Brady's) tank less than a year old. He ran T5's and alot of actinic supplementation which he told me he use to run just the raw actinics alot of the time. I wish I could get this one particular shot, but I cant as alot of his pictures have an X on them now, but it was more coralline than you see in this picture below. I remember this tank in the early stage with just rock and everything was just plastered with coralline everywhere and all he did was water changes and ran alot of actinics. He had coralline on top of coralline LOL! I still say light intensity plays a major role though. Some strains just prefer lower light than others and vice versa. I haven't brough myself to believe just yet that any lighting will do for any type of coralline. It's just like corals. Some will like less light than others and some more than others. Take SPS for instance..

 

[DonW]

Anyway,,, Coraline likes stability and calcium. It also likes Alk. What it hates is changes. Thus does best in a mature system. My fasdtest growing Coraline ever was in a tank up five years, fed with both a CaRx and a Kalk stirer. Almost took a chisel to remove it and rocks were all thick purple and pink. I intentionally added an urchen to help keep it in check. The SPS grew very fast too. The lighting was 250w halides in the spectrum of only 12K

Ill throw another wrench in the spokes of the thread. Urchins of proportionate size to the aquarium will actually cause coraline to spread like wild fire. One that is to large will wipe out your coraline. A small urchin in a decent sized aquarium is one of the best ways to get the coraline spores up and off the rocks where it can reattatch elsewhere. Coraline spores really grab onto those clean spots created by the urchin itself. The urchins eating activity disrupts the coraline causing spores to spread. If youve ever watched an urchin eat what goes in comes right back out as fast as it can eat landing in the areas just cleaned by the urchin spreading even more spores in its feces. Of course this holds true of all so called tank cleaners and land animals. Mother natures way of regenerating food sources.

I'll add a little more. Animals that rely on corline like urchins rely heavily on the Mg for survival. So in short a properly balanced sea water will give the coraline what it needs to survive. Low Mg will starve off and or slow growth. Of course we need the proper Mg. Not all additives are created equal, this is why you see fantastic coraline growth in tanks that us a CARX. Mother nature got the balance right.


Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Good stuff Don and Krish!

Here is the opinions from the makers of "purple-up" of which I do not recommend using:

Purple-UP 16 oz. Coraline algae growth accelerator from CaribSea.

Purple-Up is a new pink and purple Coraline algae growth accelerator. Since Purple-Up is not a fertilizer, it does not promote the growth of nuisance algae.

How does it work? Purple-Up uses a unique dual method approach to coralline algae acceleration. It contains ionic calcium which immediately raises dissolved calcium levels in your aquarium water. At the same time Super Sea Calcium (a 10 micron aragonite powder derived from natural seawater) targets the live rock surface. Super Sea Calcium dissolves in situ; delivering calcium, strontium, magnesium, and carbonate right where it's needed. Purple-Up also replenishes iodine; an essential element for coralline algae tissues that quickly becomes depleted in closed systems.

Purple-Up is an excellent addition to any aquarium with stony corals too! One bottle of Purple-Up replaces the typical multi product recipe for successful coralline algae growth favored by advanced aquarists.

Shipment Dimensions:

* Weight: 2 lb
* Height: 8 in
* Width: 3 in
* Depth: 2.9 in


Shake well before use! Add 1 capful (5ml) per 50 gallons no more than once daily. Place in the sump, near a powerhead outlet, or any high flow area of the system for rapid dispersal. Purple uptm will cause some temporary cloudiness. Check calcium levels regularly. Adjust dosage of purple uptm to maintain calcium levels between 380 ppm and 420 ppm (380 mg/l to 420 mg/l). Do not exceed 420 ppm on a regular basis or significant precipitation will occur. (important! Wait at least 1 hour after using purple up to test calcium levels or erroneously high calcium levels may be indicated.)

Factors for best coralline algae growth:

*purple-up™ does not contain coralline algae. Some living coralline algae must already be living on rocks or aquarium glass.

*high dissolved phosphate levels inhibit the growth of coralline algae (and corals) and favors the growth of nuisance algaes. Check phosphate levels and use phos-buster™ or other products to lower phosphate levels if necessary.

*carbonate hardness levels should be maintained at natural seawater levels 2-2.5 meq/l or higher.

*high nitrogeneous waste levels encourage nuisance algae growth, keep nitrogenous waste levels in check.

*keep ph in the range of normal seawater (8.2).

*light spectrum in the range of 5500ok or higher favors the growth of coralline algae.

*grazing animals such as snails, tangs and reef friendly hermit crabs encourgae coralline algae by consuming competing fast growing nuisance algaes.

*coralline algaes have a life cycle that determines the speed of formation of new colonies. Different species of coralline algaes may grow at different rates. It is not unusual to take several months for pink and purple coralline algaes to reach rapid growth rates.