Re-Aquascaping with a DSB

[Kimo]

Hi everyone - This is a great forum, lots of very knowledgeable people here.

I have a 180 reef with a DSB. Just to set the stage, I'm having some nutrient problems right now, but no filimentous algae. I'd like to re-aquascape fairly extensively but I am concerned about disturbing the DSB. Basically, I would like to move all the rocks from the left of the tank and the left side of the middle to the right, so that I have a large rock outcropping on the right side of the tank for Acros and other stonies, with a large sand/rubble zone on the mid to left side of the tank. When I say rubble zone, I mean a few small/med pieces of rock by themselves in the sandbed, where I can attach corals. I plan on having fungia, scolymia, trachophyllia in the open sand area, and possibly even get a couple jawfish

Now, I'm worried about the DSB. The tank has been up for 3 years now. My rock is pretty well nestled down in there. Should I slowly, over a number of days, pull the rock out so it is sitting on top of the sand to allow the bacteria to take care of the released nutrients/chemicals? I would run carbon continuously.

The only corals I have currently are some softies, a echnophyllia and a frogspawn frag. I also have a maxima I have had for 6 years.

Thanks for the input!

Jamie

 

[Ultimate Reef]

Jamie,

I dont see re-aquascaping an issue w/ a DSB. My DSB has been set up for numerous years and I have rearranged the LR from time to time. I am always poking moving LR and never had an issue.

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers, Jamie!!!

You could also do a water change after all the moving around is done.

 

[Kimo]

That was my plan - I need to do some water changes anyway just to deal with my nutrients. My RO was shot and I didn't know about it - The water coming out was at 200 TDS

Thanks for the info. Everyone always is talking about nuking the tank by stirring up the DSB, etc. Usually, there's a smidgen of truth and a couple of pounds of bologna with statements like that

Additionally - Has anyone seen a tank set up like I described, like the edge of a reef?

Thanks,

Jamie

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF! You shoud be quite alright moving around the rocks...Trust me, no-one moves around stuff more than me Hope you enjoy it here

 

[mojoreef]

This I would still be very careful when you did it, normally the substrate right under the rocks being compressed can have some nasty stuff under it. Even in the best of conditions you're going to put some heavy detritus and sediment into the water column. If it was me and I was going to do as deep a aquascaping as you have planned here I would move what corals you wish to keep into a separate tank until you are finished.



Mike

 

[Kimo]

mojo -

How long would you keep the corals seperate? Until the rock is in its new location, or longer?

Part of the motivation for re-aquascaping is to get at all of that nasty stuff and get it OUT. MY tank was neglected for a long time so I don't have that many corals. No $$$ = Empty tank

Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

Jamie

 

[bc_slc]

If you are worried about the DSB being unsettled then I would STRONGLY recommend against the jawfish. Digging is what they do best.

I would also recommend moving the corals to a new tank till the water clears up, couple days should be fine. I would move everything, change 30gal of water or so on two consecutive days and then move the corals back.

Mat

 

[lebloom]

I've got question. What about replacing the sand in this situation? I was talking to someone online and he has replaced sand anywheres from 10% to more alot more. I'd like to rearrange the LR and maybe add 30lbs of sand. Can this be done and not hurt anything?

 

[Kimo]

Sure you can add sand. I'm just not planning on doing that

 

[lebloom]

Should I do anything to the sand to prepare it for this or just pour it in straight from the bag? How much at a time, 5, 10lbs or more?

 

[mojoreef]

Kimo any nasties that you would be getting, you would be getting right at the moment that you start moving the rocks around, or lift them from their location. If it was me this is how I would do it. I would pull the corals and put them in seperate tank, taking a bunch of the tank water with you. I would make a couple of 30 gallon garbage cans of new saltwater and have a smaller can for rinsing. I would take the rock out, piece by piece you a quick rinse in the smaller can and then plot that in one of the garbage cans. I would keep doing this until I got most of the rock out, this will give you some maneuvering room when your redoing it. At that point I would get some hose, a small mag pump and some 5 gallon buckets. I would stir up the top inch or so of the sand while siphoning out the detritus that will be stirred up. Then simply re add the new water as you go. Once that's all done then just add your rock back to the tank the way you want it. Once that's complete then do big water change with whatever new water you have left.
To be honest from their you might be able to add the corals that the next day you just have to test your parameters. This way at least your critters are protected, you help the bed out a bit by removing some of the organic biomass, and have the tank redone the way you want.


Just my thoughts


Mike

 

[Kimo]

Thanks Mike! I appreciate the well thought out response.

What about fish?

Jamie

 

[liveforphysics]

If you are going through the trouble of tearing all the rock out, you could take one more step and install a UGF (under gravel filter). Running in reverse or conventionaly makes it a VERY cool tool for preventing the problems associated with long term DSB usage.

UGFs are very exellent tools for reef aquariums.

 

[NaH2O]

I personally wouldn't use an UGF (conventional or reverse), unless ALOT of research has gone into the proper use of one, and all the pros and cons.

If it were me, I'd do the same with the fish as you will do with the corals. I'd place them into a separate container, and go ahead with the re-scape.

 

[steve-s]

What about fish?

If you're refering to the jawfish, not with a DSB. The potential for constantly releasing trapped waste/nutrient will hamper your tanks stability. Digging fish species of anykind with a DSB are typically counterproductive.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Kimo]

Thanks for the input -

No, I was asking what I should do with my fish while I am re-aquascaping.

Mojo's plan sounds good for the process, but I'd have to find a time when the wife and kid are out since it will make my house smell like low tide

 

[liveforphysics]

Nikki- What is your reason for not likeing UGFs? And perhaps something a little deeper than the typical 'nitrate factory' BS would be good to hear. Maybe even writing your own thoughts rather than links would be neat to. I've read plenty of links bashing them, but I'm interested on why you personally dont like them.

 

[MikeS]

I re-aquascaped my tank several times in the 5 years I had my DSB...even moved the tank twice with the DSB intact...mojo and the others are right, you need to be careful and try not to distrub the sandbed as much as possible, but don't let that scare you off...

When you decide to re-aquascape...turn off all the flow to the tank. Remove all corals not directly attached to the rock. Remove the rocks very carefully, particularly the ones that are sunk into the sand. Once this is complete, let the tank settle out for a while, you'll notice that the depressions left in the sand will fill up with a muddy detritus mix as things settle out. Gently siphon this stuff out (be sure you have plenty of new saltwater on hand) and either smooth out or fill in the depressions with new sand. Carefully aquascape the tank again. Watch your water parameters carefully over the next few weeks. You'll likely see a small spike in nitrate (I always did) and maybe the odd algae bloom here and there. Be prepared with water changes to keep these in check. And of course, use the skimmer and carbon....

If you are going through the trouble of tearing all the rock out, you could take one more step and install a UGF (under gravel filter). Running in reverse or conventionaly makes it a VERY cool tool for preventing the problems associated with long term DSB usage.

UGFs are very exellent tools for reef aquariums.

No offense, but I'd discourage this idea for 2 reasons. #1...in order to install a UGF under your DSB, you'll have to tear the whole thing out and either put the old sandbed back in, or replace it with new sand. As far as re-using the old sand, unless you do a 100% water change, with a 3 year old DSB, you are likely going to be putting all kinds of nasites in the water column, not to mention totally disrupting the functioning layers of your DSB. If you do put new sand on top of it (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea if you are tearing the whole setup apart anyway), aside from the cost of the hundreds of pounds of sand you'll need to purchace to replace the sandbed, you"ll get to wait while the DSB becomes functional again.

Reason #2...the UGF itself. This is a "somewhat" debateable subject, but there is a REASON that the large majority of us that have been in the marine tank hobby for a long time have stopped using them. Quite simply, they tend to compact waste into the substrate faster than the bacteria can deal with them. Even on a low flow UGF setup, all you end up doing is composting waste into the substrate at an accelerated rate. As for reverse flow under a DSB, I don't think this would work at all. First, you will be introducing large volumes of oxygenated water into the lower part of the DSB, effectively reducing the anerobic or anoxic zones. Basically, you'll have one big aerobic filter...this will mean a more rapid formation of nitrate. Second...even if the flow is slow enough, and even if you filter out the majority of the solids, you'll still get plenty of nutrients into the substate to cause ammonia interference with denitrification, producing ammonium, which does not outgas like free nitrogen, so you'll just he recycling these nutrients right back into the system. DSB's do this over time anyway, but use of a UGF is going to do nothing but accelerate this process.

MikeS

 

[liveforphysics]

Mike S- I used to belive the same things you posted. In practice however, Nitrates stay totally undectable. I use high flow through mine, and my sand stays very very clean. I can give it a furious stirring and not see the gross clouds of filth that used to rise up out of the sand on my earlier DSB tanks.

I was worried my nitrates would escalate and all sorts of things, the reality is the tank has never been more stable at holding undectable nutrient levels reguardless of how much I over feed.

So, I see very clean sand full of fauna through out the entire layer rather than just the top (do to O2 presence making life possible everywhere in the sand.) I see a very stable enviroment that never registers dectable nutrients. Perhaps it requires the chaetomorpha combo to make them work, I dont know, I havent tried one with out it.

Before useing them I would have replied just like your above post, but after useing them...I really struggle to see the downside.