Really BAD water what steps to take?

[Gazbo]

OK yesterday I bought a 75gl tank no overflows and a fluval canister filter and a cheap hang on back protien skimmer. The reason I bought it is thought it would be a perfect QT tank for helping my buddies maintenace business out and it had a really large Naso Tang about 6-8" and a yellow belly blue hippo tang about 7-8" That would be perfect for one of his clients and the fish alone would pay for the tank setup, anyways I tested the water today I brought every drop of water with me to help minimize stress on the fish only did about a 15gl water change cleaning the tank a little and I rinsed the fluval filter out since it was full of red slime like stuff I only slilghtly rinsed the media filter to get the large particals off trying not to ruin the valuable bacteria. I have never seen numbers like this and I will be doing small water changes to slowly get it back on track but there is some alarming numbers and wondering if I need to be more aggresive the Nitrate levels are off the chart over 160 tested it twice, The fish seem fine the blue hippo has discolored skin and really pale which I thought was from poor diet but leaning more toward both diet and water quality. Its a fowler tank with just a few large snails and couple hermits and a really shallow sand bed 1" maybe (sand looks like its from a river bed)

Here are the parameters
Salinity 1.022
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 160+ (off chart)
Ph 7.7
KH 5.4
calcium over 500 (off chart)

I have never seen water this bad and was wondering if I should do something more than just water changes? could the nitrates be the beginning of another cycle or did I over clean the filter. The lady used well water for water changes and top off, as you can tell she used hydormeter do to the low salinity

 

[IPisces]

I think the first thing I would do is take that fluval off line.
Do a large water change.
How much rock came with it? That is were all the benificial bacteria is going to be. Only two fish?
Fish can handle some nitrates, but not that much. The inverts are still alive? They typically cant handle that high nitrates. I dont think they can anyway.
Siphon as much as you can out of the sand when you do the water change.
You can set up a HOB filter with carbon.
I think this is what I would do.

 

[Gazbo]

I think the first thing I would do is take that fluval off line.
Do a large water change.
How much rock came with it? That is were all the benificial bacteria is going to be. Only two fish?
Fish can handle some nitrates, but not that much. The inverts are still alive? They typically cant handle that high nitrates. I dont think they can anyway.
Siphon as much as you can out of the sand when you do the water change.
You can set up a HOB filter with carbon.
I think this is what I would do.

There is also a scooter blenny about 2" and the few snail and hermits are surprisingly everything is alive and active. For how long time will tell I just don't want to stress things out to much but as far as getting things back on track just stick with water changes or should I get something to lower nirtates I am just worried about the levels. there where 3 media bags filled with who knows what in the fluval. Maybe I should just take the fluval off line but worried that it might be doing some good but who knows. I am guessing about 20 lbs of rock I will take a quick pic.

 

[extremecoral]

Nitrate 160+ Nitrite and Anmonia: 0 ??? Could this be test kit error? I mean w/ that high of Nitrate these are several reasons: where is the water coming from? you said you bought a new tank yesterday and water from the DT? also QT does not need sand and rock, especially live rock.....these 2 things will spike the nitrite and also the fish is too big for the tank, the waste from the 8in fish will mostly likely is another cause.

 

[Gazbo]

here is a couple of pics.

They are fat well fed fish just a little TLC and they should be great looking the Naso looks awesome just the hippo is looking sad

 

[Gazbo]

Nitrate 160+ Nitrite and Anmonia: 0 ??? Could this be test kit error? I mean w/ that high of Nitrate these are several reasons: where is the water coming from? you said you bought a new tank yesterday and water from the DT? also QT does not need sand and rock, especially live rock.....these 2 things will spike the nitrite and also the fish is too big for the tank, the waste from the 8in fish will mostly likely is another cause.

New tank for me, They had it for 2yrs (son for 5yrs before them) and live in BFE and used well water and I am sure there is something in the media bags to remove ammonia and who knows what else thats why the readings are so off course. I just tested my DT a week ago and didn't get these numbers so think the kits are fine. I know a qt tank doesn't need sand or rock but wanted to keep the tank the same for the fish until they are moved into the clients tank but wanted to make sure they are healthy before doing so just didn't think they lived in such bad water and I was wanting to get the hippo color back a little also.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Near impossible to have nitrate AND Ca that high with zero ammonia. Either test kits are bad or errors in testing.

 

[extremecoral]

I've had this issue before w/ nitrate spiked. My nitrate was only in the 40 range. Those are live rock right? it could be one of the reason due to the tank being cycled...Just like new tank w/ the process of being cycled but impossible to have a 160+ nitrate. THEN I removed the live rock the nitrate immediately went down, I tested the tank for a week, and never experienced any high level in nitrate.

 

[Gazbo]

Near impossible to have nitrate AND Ca that high with zero ammonia. Either test kits are bad or errors in testing.

OK I just double checked with a different test kit and this is after I just did a 15gl WC and now Saliferts says 500 and API 480 for calcium, Ammonia 0, Nitrates are now 20+ Maybe the other Nitrate kit is bad but just did a full tank test last week with no problems with it.

Ammonia is probably is at 0 since the last owner about killed the blue hippo around thanksgiving from ammonia and these fish where like her kids only reason of selling them is they are moving to Alaska this Monday. I would bet the media bags have ammonia remover, there is a liquid ammonia remover that was in the stuff and zeolites (ammonia remover in rock form). The one thing that doesn't make sense is why calcium is so high when there was no calcium additive among the stuff just a PH buffer

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Ammonia is consumed pretty fast in a tank with enough aged rock. With few fish present, would expect low ammonia. Was the NO3 readings that were suspect if Ca was high and Ammona nil. The buffer might be CaOH or other Ca based products

 

[Gazbo]

So with the nitrates alot lower just do WC until things balance out no need to get some kind of nitrate absorption media I just freaked with 160+.

Is there a good plant or seaweed that would be good to add directly in the tank with this just being a temporary home for fish thought some plant life would be cool to add to the main tank

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I very rarely ever suggest anything other than water changes and carbon. Most of my tanks through the years has had Calurpa in the display or sump. Many do not like it and prefer Chytomorphic algae. My breeding tank has plants in it and my big display has a large refugium packed. Having plants in the tanks requires extra maintenence as they do grow.
For 34 years in this hobby, Keep it simple has been my dogma .

So with the nitrates alot lower just do WC until things balance out no need to get some kind of nitrate absorption media I just freaked with 160+.

Is there a good plant or seaweed that would be good to add directly in the tank with this just being a temporary home for fish thought some plant life would be cool to add to the main tank

 

[TJL]

The reason for the high Calcium readings is a result of the high Nitrate and low PH, basically an acid bath that is disolving Live Rock etc... like a Calcium Reactor

Cheers, Todd

 

[Herefishyfishy]

The reason for the high Calcium readings is a result of the high Nitrate and low PH, basically an acid bath that is disolving Live Rock etc... like a Calcium Reactor

Cheers, Todd

Great thought, but do you think the water's pH is actually below 7? ainkiller:
Other than biologically, that is the point required to dissolve the rock chemically.
I do agree the buffering level is probably dismally low.

 

[Gazbo]

You are right never thought of PH being low enough to brake down the live rock enough to raise the calcium. Really need to invest in a digital ph monitor may have to check out what OBD has while I am there tomorrow (new sign. Series Skimmer . )

 

[vlangel]

Could the well water be contributing to high Ca? My dad was a well driller and some well water does have Ca in it. If they did very few water changes to export minerals but kept adding top off water that might make the calcium continue to increase in a FOWLR system?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

You are right never thought of PH being low enough to brake down the live rock enough to raise the calcium. Really need to invest in a digital ph monitor may have to check out what OBD has while I am there tomorrow (new sign. Series Skimmer . )

No marine fish could live long in acidic water (pH< 7.0)

 

[Gazbo]

I had that thought to but not sure what well water could have in it. It doesn't really matter now since I use RO/DI water and will just do 15gl water changes every 3 days until everything is back on track I was mainly scared about the nitrate levels and was wondering if I needed to do something more aggressive than water changes. I have new lights on the way 2 are burned out and who knows how long the other 2 are, its a coralife 4 bulb 65W power compact. Figured to get the hippo tang back to health it would need proper lighting, water quality, and a good diet

 

[TJL]

Great thought, but do you think the water's pH is actually below 7? ainkiller:
Other than biologically, that is the point required to dissolve the rock chemically.
I do agree the buffering level is probably dismally low.

I bet that the PH is much lower than that for a few hours before lights come on each day as well as the ammonia levels prior to nitrification break down.

Cheers, Todd

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Todd, have you ever seen an acidic pH in a reef tank as in below 7.0? How did the fish survive???
Yes, dropping pH is an inherent problem because the biological processes ending up with nitrates occurring in the aquarium system produce nitric acid (HNO3) besides the Carbonic acid from desolved CO2 (CO2 + H2O H2CO3, which lowers the pH. Although seawater, live rock and calcium carbonate substrates, like crushed coral, are natural buffers, they can be depleted with excessive polution and steady low pH.

Be that as it may, I have never seen acidic water in a reef tank, even one with poor air circulation leading to CO2 buildup. I once had a CO2 tank with a valve stuck open, fully dump 10 lbs into the sump area. Tank was indeed stressed, but pH didn't drop below 7.4.

I agree his buffers are probably dismally low, but do not think it is truly acidic enough to chemically disolve the rock.

Bacteria and other biological activety probably is though, due to the lack of buffering.

Any chemists here can chime in, I am just a first year wannabe