Red blotches on Yellow Tang

[Reese]

My yellow tang showed yellow blotches on both sides near his tail and underside a few days ago. I've since done a number of water changes and have kept nori soaked in a vitamin and some gracilaria in the tank. I hooked my UV filter back up. I left it out of the setup since I recently changed the sump from a 8.5 gallon wet/dry to a 29 gallon wet/dry sump/fuge I put together. I've also slowed down feedings to keep the water clean.

The blotches got smaller but haven't completely gone away. Based on what I've read I'm assuming that this is a bacterial infection. What is the safest product to use to treat the tang? Of course I'd prefer to treat the main tank but if that's not possible, I could set up a QT. The main is a 75 gallon. Other inhabitants: Flame Angel, two oscellaris clowns, royal gramma, yellow watchman goby(but I haven't seen him in a while), a BTA, skunk cleaner shrimp, bunch of hermits, turbos, nasarrius snails, and a few sand sifting stars...

Also, possible culprits?

I've just set up a refugium and added new live rock to it.

I've added a sun coral and have been target feeding it to get it to open its polyps.

I'm no longer using store bought RO/DI water but instead using aged RO water from a filter I installed.

This seems to coincide with a bit more green algae growing on the back wall and rocks.

Thanks...

 

[leebca]

Your title said 'Red' blotches. Are they red or yellow?

It's probably bacterial IF you've had this fish for a long time. You don't mention how long you've had this fish. However, this may be a systemic bacterial infection (not on the surface, but manifesting itself on the surface from an internal infection). It could also be a reaction of poisoning (see below).

Safest product? Hundreds. The most effective is Maracyn Two for Saltwater Fishes. This medication goes through the fish's skin and attacks bacteria on the surface as well as systemic infections.

With the inverts you have I would not risk performing an antibiotic treatment in the reef tank.

Melafix and Pimafix have mixed effectiveness because of them only being able to attack a few types of bacteria. They are also questionable regarding being reef safe. More info on those here: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine-fish-care-health-disease-treatment/18757-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html

And, if it is systemic, I'd go directly to an antibiotic treatment.

Post a photo if you can so we can be more sure of the diagnosis.

The new live rock can cause a cycling to occur. This could mean (if you haven't monitored ammonia and nitrites two or three times a day for the first couple of weeks) the tank cycled again. In which case, the fish could be responding to poisoning. OTOH the aquarium could be going through a bacterial bloom from the die-off from the new LR.

Sun coral and target feeding. Excess foods/nutrients in the system are always a potential source of bacteria food. It shouldn't be the cause of your fish's reaction, in my opinion.

RO should be okay, but if you're 'aging' it, it could be growing things in it. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and phosphates to see if you see anything out of the ordinary.

Green algae growth is okay. Why isn't your tang eating it? Are you sure your tang is getting the proper nutrition? This is a good read on that:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine-fish-care-health-disease-treatment/18767-feeding-marine-fish-fish-nutrition.html

Good luck!

 

[Reese]

Your title said 'Red' blotches. Are they red or yellow?

Duh, my bad. The blotches are red. The tang is yellow...

It's probably bacterial IF you've had this fish for a long time. You don't mention how long you've had this fish.

I've had the fish for over a year.

Post a photo if you can so we can be more sure of the diagnosis.

The new live rock can cause a cycling to occur. This could mean (if you haven't monitored ammonia and nitrites two or three times a day for the first couple of weeks) the tank cycled again. In which case, the fish could be responding to poisoning. OTOH the aquarium could be going through a bacterial bloom from the die-off from the new LR.

I should have mentioned that it was just a very small amount of LR. One piece and some small chunks/rubble. All rock was cured. Zero ammonia or nitrites. Weekly 10% or more water changes keep my nitrates at a minimum. I need to get a test kit for phosphates. The reason I mentioned the target feeding the sun coral was because I usually feed every other day. But since purchasing the coral, I was target feeding the polyps to encourage them to open in the evening.

RO should be okay, but if you're 'aging' it, it could be growing things in it. Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and phosphates to see if you see anything out of the ordinary.

Good point. I usually test the water prior to making any changes.

Why isn't your tang eating it? Are you sure your tang is getting the proper nutrition?

The tang does eat some stuff off of rocks/walls and usually eats frozen mysis. I've always provided nori on a clip daily. I now also supplement with purple algae and clippings of gracilaria grown in the fuge. He's a plump fish. However his appetite seems a little less since this. He's killing the gracilaria but not tearing into the seaweed sheets as he usually does...

Thanks for all of your help...

 

[leebca]

You're welcome!

That being the case, I'd do an antibiotic treatment for a systemic condition.

If you use Maracyn Two for saltwater fish then I would use a QT and:
Lower sp. gr. to 1.016 to 1.018
Double the recommended first dose and after the initial, do regular dose
Keep close eye on pH especially
Watch water quality

Improve its diet, along with some addition of beta glucan while it's still eating.

Good luck!

 

[steve-s]

A little meat for the tang is no biggie but try to ensure a good amount of it's diet is veggie based and vitamin enriched. Frozen blender type foods can make an excellent addition.

On the red marks, you make no mention of pH or alkalinity. Low pH can often bring on these markings although they are not usually so dense. If a low pH problem, a few large (25%+) water changes daily over the next few days would fix it.

It's really hard to identify by the pic as there is no detail but you could also be dealing with a Vibrio infection. Given the severity has been easing on it's own (?), I'd lean more towards a toxic water/pH problem.

Please post nitrate, pH and alkalinity.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Reese]

On the red marks, you make no mention of pH or alkalinity. Low pH can often bring on these markings although they are not usually so dense. If a low pH problem, a few large (25%+) water changes daily over the next few days would fix it.

To be honest, until recently my tank was a 75 gallon FOWLR. I only have one coral (sun coral) at the moment. So, I do not have a test kit for alk. but will pick one up. The pH has been consistently between 8.2 and 8.4. And like I said, I've been doing water changes every other day since this problem appeared.

It's really hard to identify by the pic as there is no detail but you could also be dealing with a Vibrio infection. Given the severity has been easing on it's own (?), I'd lean more towards a toxic water/pH problem.

I'll try to post another tonight. (If my kids give me a chance. ) Yes, it got better after a water change, but any further improvement seems to have stalled...

Please post nitrate, pH and alkalinity.

Nitrates are close to 0. pH = 8.2 I'll pick up tests for ALK, phosphates and carbonate tomorrow...

Thanks, Steve

 

[Reese]

Thanks again Lee...

 

[steve-s]

With that information, infection is most likely then. Once the fish is in the QT and the treatment underway, make sure you post back regularly (daily/every other day) with progress or lack there of. Sometimes certain antibiotics may not work as well as expected and may need rethinking. I would however suggest you double the recommended dose daily, not just the first dose and be sure a large water change (25%) is done prior to each new dose.

Cheers
Steve

 

[leebca]

You're welcome Reese.

Don't combine Steve's and my recommended treatments. I suggested lowering the specific gravity to reduce the energy the fish spends on osmoregulation. At lower salinity the effects of antibiotics are increased. So, if you keep the salinity at the 'normal' level, Steve's dose proposal is fine. If you lower the salinity to help the fish focus its energy at recovery, the antibiotic dose I recommended will be fine.

If the first choice in antibiotic doesn't give results, like Steve wrote, make sure to post again and another antibiotic can be chosen.

Good luck!

 

[Reese]

Thanks again. I'll be able to start treatment tonight...

 

[Reese]

Okay, here's the deal.

I purchased everything from a new 10 gallon set up to an antibiotic to a 4" pvc elbow for shelter. But after doing a nice sized water change in the main, the red blotches are almost gone. The tang is eating well and more active. So I figured that with things taking a turn for the better I'd wait it out before unnecessarily stressing the fish out.

I think I may have found the culprit, but I'm not sure if this would cause the symptons. Let's say you have someone else do a top off for you and instead of using one of the gallon jugs of RO/DI, instead they dowse the sump of your 75 gallon tank with a full gallon of water mixed with Kalkwasser. If a pH spike ensued, might that be the reason for symptons of stress on the tang?

Anyway, the only thing that tested out of whack was a high carbonate hardness. The pH is fine. No phosphates, nitrates, nitrites, etc....

I'm going to do another moderate sized water change tomorrow. I'm not going to treat the tang unless what little is left of the red marks isn't gone by tomorrow...

Thanks again for the help...

 

[leebca]

Fish are pretty tolerant and aren't as sensitive or delicate as we sometimes are led to believe. BUT, they really don't handle a shift in pH very well. Even small changes (0.05 pH units) can exert considerable stress on fishes.

What most people forget is that the pH scale is the concentration of hydrogen ions on the exponential scale. A small change in pH means a significant change in hydrogen ion concentrations. Unfortunately the pH scale was invented to handle a very large range of cocentration, but it gives the average person a mis-impression of how significant a pH change of 0.05 units really is to the concentration of hydrogen ions.

 

[Reese]

Well, while the red blotches started to subside at first with water changes, it didn't go away. So I moved the tang to a 10 gallon QT last night. I treated with a double dose of ampicillin and this morning the fish looks better already. There's almost no red on the fish at all. I will continue the treatment for the next few days. Thanks again Lee and Steve for your help. I will update...

 

[Reese]

Fourth day of treatment and the red is completely gone. Actually that was the case yesterday. The tang looks great, is eating well and swimming at ease.

He's been in a 10 gallon QT with a large PVC elbow and a piece of LR (that needed to be removed from the main to get rid of a potential Valonia problem, but that's another story). I didn't lower the salinity but instead opted to go with doubling the dose per day of ampicillin. I was a little gunshy about going hypo since I don't own a refractometer. Per suggestion I've been doing 25% water changes daily prior to dosing with the antibiotic. I plan on one more day of treatment and then returning him to the main tank on Saturday...

 

[Dr. Dee]

Hi sorry to stop in on you but,that tang looks like it has the flukes!!

I have a lfs and we get some in like that because of catalina water. and some angel fish get that also. But you can give it a fresh water bath for three minutes, you will see somthing like fish scales fall off try it.

 

[steve-s]

How'd you come up with flukes?

Cheers
Steve

 

[Dr. Dee]

I live in so cal and we go to alot of wholesaler in La, and we talk about are fish that come up with the red,cloudy eye so fresh water works fine.

 

[steve-s]

FW dips can sometimes be effective with external flukes but red areas like this are not a common symptom. You'll also note the tangs eyes are quite clear and the problem is primarily at the posterior of the fish.

The above picture is usually an indication of pH problems (acidocis) or systemic bacterial infections. Starting off with large daily water changes can often alleviate the problem if minor. With infections of this nature, a gram negative antibiotic is often needed. A FW dips will be of no use.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Dr. Dee]

Yes i do agree that tangs need a ph 8.3 8.4 And it looks like a bactera.

 

[Dr. Dee]

Hey steve its nice to talk to you!!