Refugium advice

[reedman]

I am thinking of trying to setup a refugium again, but wanted to seek some advice from those that are successful first.

A little background:
this is an 80 gallon reef setup with a sump. probably 85 gallons total water. I am limited on space under the stand and the fuge would have to go there. I would be running all or part of my overflow water into the fuge and let it spill into the sump before being pumped back up to the display. I plan to keep chaeto in the fuge.

So my question is this: How small can I go and still see realistic benefits in both PO4 and N3 reduction? I was thinking a 10 gallon tank, but if that is going to be too small I don't want to waste time with it.

Also, what do I need to think about in designing this? Just a rubbermaid "vat", baffles, something else? Pictures would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance for helping this novice fuge guy out.

-Reed

 

[roscoe]

Good thread here Reed. I've always wondered how many gallons of refugium space do you need per gallons of display for it to be truly effective at removeing N and P.

 

[atlantisaquatic]

I have a 20g tall that I modified into a refugium back when I began this hobby a number of years ago... it faithfully serves my 92g corner reef display quite nicely. This design was my first, but I have since modified it a great deal to more closely resemble the Ecosystem designs.
The nitrate and phosphate reduction issue (needless to say) is going to largely depend on how heavy and consistent your bioload will be. Flow rate through the refugium will also be a matter to consider here. I have my refugium turning over about 700 gph... seems to be a happy medium.
Let me know if I should go on further... don't want to go overkill on your thread here....

 

[CarlaW]

Reed,if you only have room for 10 gallons, it will be ten gallons that you didn't have before. Remember, the more water you have the more stable you are going to be. Any type of fuge is gonna help you out. If you are going to run your fuge back into the sump, I wouldn't worry about baffles, but that is just my thinking.

 

[reedman]

I have a 20g tall that I modified into a refugium back when I began this hobby a number of years ago... it faithfully serves my 92g corner reef display quite nicely. This design was my first, but I have since modified it a great deal to more closely resemble the Ecosystem designs.
The nitrate and phosphate reduction issue (needless to say) is going to largely depend on how heavy and consistent your bioload will be. Flow rate through the refugium will also be a matter to consider here. I have my refugium turning over about 700 gph... seems to be a happy medium.
Let me know if I should go on further... don't want to go overkill on your thread here....

Please do go on. Post some pics if you have them and explain the changes you made and when. What resulted?

Good thread here Reed. I've always wondered how many gallons of refugium space do you need per gallons of display for it to be truly effective at removeing N and P.

That's the idea....I always hear a refugium is good....but never hear what volume it takes to be effective.

Reed,if you only have room for 10 gallons, it will be ten gallons that you didn't have before. Remember, the more water you have the more stable you are going to be. Any type of fuge is gonna help you out. If you are going to run your fuge back into the sump, I wouldn't worry about baffles, but that is just my thinking.

I agree with you Charlie. The extra volume is always a good thing, but my interest is more in how much space do I need to be able to consistently grow & harvest chaeto or some other macro. I have tried to grow chaeto in the past in a small volume and it just wouldn't grow. Not sure if it was because I couldn't get it tumbling or not enough nutrients (hard to believe) or some other factor, but I want to get a handle on the volume issue so I can get the right size tank for my fuge.

 

[returnofsid]

In my opinion, the largest you have room for. However, along with what Charlie said, and from experience with smaller areas, I have a large CPR Aquafuge. I believe it holds 4.5 gallons of water. I'm consistently able to grow and harvest Chaeto or Grape Caleurpa in it just fine. In fact, if I don't harvest it often enough, I end up with a block of Chaeto!! It's a great lil' fuge and has the added advantage of being gravity fed, so all the beneficial critters are able to get into the display without having to go through a pump first.

 

[jlehigh]

Hey Reed,

10 gal is plenty of room to do some P04 damage. Chaeto grows extremely dense to the point of operating as a floss filter and will pack a punch in that space (let me know if you need some). Add a lil rock rubble for the pods (they will boom in the chaeto too). I like keeping subtrate out because of the low flow and subsequent detritus build up.

 

[reedman]

Thanks for the advice John. Im going to do a little more revamping of the stand/setup to free up as much space as possible and then we'll see what size is practical. I will definitely take you up on the offer for chaeto. Thanks!

Anyone using rubbermaid bins for refugium? This would make drilling a lot easier for me.

 

[tamarindthai]

i was going to talk to you about refugium,,totally for got it ..i 'm enjoy your visited to day

 

[reedman]

Dang, it was great to see you again. I was checking out your fuge when I was there....man that thing is packed...but I guess that is the idea.

So now for my next question for you all...
For a given volume is it better to be a more shallow & wide container or a deeper & narrower container?

 

[atlantisaquatic]

Shallower and wider, for sure... more surface area exposed to light for the macro to occupy... the mantra here is (as mentioned above) "more volume, more volume!!!"...

 

[burning2nd]

i have a 10 that works just great... my advice would be to place nothing in there except your cheto..... any kinda of filters or rocks will collect detritus, thus working backwards..

just a small light very clean BB 10g tank with a small ball of cheto... as it gets bigger remove some... (try to save some pods)



I always feel so bad harvesting algea... cause the pods are just down there screaming like "ahhhh the world is comeing to an end"

 

[reedman]

Is there any need for anything more than just a bulkhead and a strainer to get water into the sump? I can't think of anything else needed here since it will be a dedicated fuge. I will have a light over the fuge and maybe a PH in the fuge if needed.

 

[burning2nd]

bulkhead...
and you dont really need a strainer, unless your guarding snails...

i would like to have a system where my snails could rome, free

 

[CarlaW]

bulkhead...
and you dont really need a strainer, unless your guarding snails...

i would like to have a system where my snails could rome, free

Gotta agree here!!! He makes a good point about snails though, maybe put one on just for grins.

 

[burning2nd]

i tend to strain, anything thats gonna lead to a prop, altho ive red story's of people have fish that made it thur pumps and stuff... i just dont think anything should be submitted to that.


I only strain the inlet (of the return) to the pump, the snails are free to walk there way thur the overflow,

you should try to avoid an area where a fish could get cought and killed, most non sick fish dont have this problems, better safe then sorry,

 

[reedman]

Cool, so it sounds like I am on the right track. I will plan to put a strainer on the outlet from the fuge to the sump to keep any larger animal from making it to the chopping block. Thanks for all the inputs everyone...really appreciate it.