Refugium start up attempt #3

[warforged]

CPR aquafuge 5gallon HOB is the one I am using.

Attempt 1: Live sand, Chaeto, some rocks using 18" bulb callec coral sun from petco...

Disaster Huge Cyano break out (light issues helped and not noticing).

Attempt 2: Cleaned it all out.. chaeto new bulb no sand just rock rubble...worked for a week..second week cyano small specs..3rd week large patches....then cyano again...this time I noticed it early and dumped it again.

I am going for a final attempt ..this time I picked up a 6.7k 33watt bulb from a hydroponic plant growing store...

I am going to use some crushed coral and rock rubble....

My questions:
1. Why in the heck am I having such trouble with cyano in that refuge? Main tank is always clean and nice...till cyano in refuge...then it tries to go in my display tank..but lots of flow and maintenance it never takes foot hold..

2. With my new start ...should I place the crushed coral and rubble in and wait a week or two...then put a small amount of chaeto in on the bottom using a rock to weigh it down ?


Seriously I am flustered with the Cyano breaking out in that thing... I can't get the refugium to work at all!

I only get cyano in my main tank from this thing (for short time) when I remove it completely I never see cyano... so I am beginning to think this HOB aquafuge is a Cyano breeding farm and its pissing me off.


PS: Going on 55 gallon tank, Corallife Skimmer 220g rated, MH 250w 10k, 96w compacts x2, 3 power heads for flow, and fluval 205 with live rock and phosban in tray.

what am i doing wrong with the refuge!?

 

[DonW]

Dont put anything in it except water and see if you get cyano.

Don

 

[warforged]

Dont put anything in it except water and see if you get cyano.

Don

if I do...what the heck is the problem =\

 

[DonW]

if I do...what the heck is the problem =\

Your water.

Don

 

[warforged]

Your water.

Don

grrr.... im so frustrated ... last attempt I tested every day on the nitrates,phosphates, and PH check (for other reasons).

Phosphates didnt register due to phosban, ph had to be buffered for a bit due to new phosban.

Nitrates were a bit up then went down...and then after being down for a few days...the cyano broke out...

Donw I do weekly water changes and its 10gallons each time...I top off with RO/DI from some water store ...some huge machine they say it has 12 stages...

grrr.... im not meant to have a hob refugium.. :doubt:


ps ...hmm i did stray from water changing weekly to bi weekly on the second attempt due to low nitrate readings...bah

 

[DonW]

grrr.... im so frustrated ... last attempt I tested every day on the nitrates,phosphates, and PH check (for other reasons).

Phosphates didnt register due to phosban, ph had to be buffered for a bit due to new phosban.

Nitrates were a bit up then went down...and then after being down for a few days...the cyano broke out...

Donw I do weekly water changes and its 10gallons each time...I top off with RO/DI from some water store ...some huge machine they say it has 12 stages...

grrr.... im not meant to have a hob refugium.. :doubt:


ps ...hmm i did stray from water changing weekly to bi weekly on the second attempt due to low nitrate readings...bah

Water stores usually dont use di since your not supposed to drink di water. What salt are you using? What did you use to buffer ph?

Don

 

[taichimaster]

sounds like a mini cycle to me. Did you use new liverock? if so, then it could be a mini cycle and cyano will go away later

 

[warforged]

Water stores usually dont use di since your not supposed to drink di water. What salt are you using? What did you use to buffer ph?

Don

I get my salt pre-mix from LFS here in tacoma... indoor reef...sometimes top off ..

Water to go http://www.watertogo.com/main/Water.aspx?pgContent=12-stage is where i get top off.

Buffer is Seachems Reef Buffer 8.3

 

[warforged]

sounds like a mini cycle to me. Did you use new liverock? if so, then it could be a mini cycle and cyano will go away later

Umm really? I mean the tank is very established the refuge stuff I put in is new...some rocks from display mixed with non live rubble.. sand was live on first attempt.

Rewording:what do you think?
Put on tank with nothing...for a week.. (no cyano then)
Put in the rock rubble and crushed coral wait another week (if no cyano)
Then put in chaeto and start up light.

 

[DonW]

I get my salt pre-mix from LFS here in tacoma... indoor reef...sometimes top off ..

Water to go http://www.watertogo.com/main/Water.aspx?pgContent=12-stage is where i get top off.

Buffer is Seachems Reef Buffer 8.3

12 stages? What are they are any di? Is Indoor using seattle water just like AP?

Don

 

[warforged]

12 stages? What are they are any di? Is Indoor using seattle water just like AP?

Don

I am very sure Paul at indoor uses his own RO unit cause I've heard him mention it...and when I buy non salt water from them they refer to it as DI water when I buy it...

im pretty sure hes using RO DI.... I will just have to stick with his water for Top off and avoid Water To Go?

 

[DonW]

I am very sure Paul at indoor uses his own RO unit cause I've heard him mention it...and when I buy non salt water from them they refer to it as DI water when I buy it...

im pretty sure hes using RO DI.... I will just have to stick with his water for Top off and avoid Water To Go?

Give them a call and ask if its trucked in and what salt they are using if its not.

Don

 

[warforged]

Give them a call and ask if its trucked in and what salt they are using if its not.

Don

I called paul’s store:
Water is made by them.. 4 stage RO unit and its DI also.
The salt mix he is using is Ocean Pure.

Hope this helps you help me Donw


PS Don, each attempt I did start by placing my stuff in and lighting up all in one day...could that be part of the problem? I am hearing I jumped the gun on set up.

 

[DonW]

I called paul’s store:
Water is made by them.. 4 stage RO unit and its DI also.
The salt mix he is using is Ocean Pure.

Hope this helps you help me Donw


PS Don, each attempt I did start by placing my stuff in and lighting up all in one day...could that be part of the problem? I am hearing I jumped the gun on set up.

Cyano is only going to be there if its there to begin with. If the rocks your using have cyano and you have enough nutrients then the cyano will grow. Ocean pure salt will fuel cyano just like oceanic. You can start your fuge empty or with dead rock. The macro can go in any time and will start growing right away. If you want a refugium then just go slow. If you want just nutrient export then skip the rock and sand and use just macro algae.

Don

 

[trido]

Question.......Would you rather have cyano in your fuge or your display?
IMO if your fuge is growing cyano shortly after you set it up then your display is on the verge of growing it at any moment meaning that your SYSTEM water has alot of DOC's. You either need to skim harder or do more WC's. Either way, I wouldnt break the fuge down because cyano is growing. It likely the spectrum of light is more ideal for growing it than in the display or the fuge has less flow, or a combination of the two.
Regardless, its better to have your nasties growing in there than in the display. Isnt that kind of the purpose of a sump and/or fuge?

 

[warforged]

Cyano is only going to be there if its there to begin with. If the rocks your using have cyano and you have enough nutrients then the cyano will grow. Ocean pure salt will fuel cyano just like oceanic. You can start your fuge empty or with dead rock. The macro can go in any time and will start growing right away. If you want a refugium then just go slow. If you want just nutrient export then skip the rock and sand and use just macro algae.

Don

Why does the Salt fuel the Cyano? Also I set up with nothing in it as you said to.

Question.......Would you rather have cyano in your fuge or your display?
IMO if your fuge is growing cyano shortly after you set it up then your display is on the verge of growing it at any moment meaning that your SYSTEM water has alot of DOC's. You either need to skim harder or do more WC's. Either way, I wouldnt break the fuge down because cyano is growing. It likely the spectrum of light is more ideal for growing it than in the display or the fuge has less flow, or a combination of the two.
Regardless, its better to have your nasties growing in there than in the display. Isnt that kind of the purpose of a sump and/or fuge?

The thing is I've only had a Cyano break out when I try to put this Fuge up in the last 2 attempts. I did attempt 2....dumped it and waited over a month before trying again... attempt 3 the cyano started as specs on the Chaeto then started going on the bottom of the fuge... I thought the same as you...its better in the fuge than my display...but it only progressed through to my display

The water on attempt 3 was changed weekly.... my skimmer is awfully big. My livestock light...

The only thing I can think of is the lighting is maybe the problem...also Fuge flow is to be slow so I can't avoid that.

The previous lighting http://www.petco.com/product/11443/Zoo-Med-Ocean-Sun-10-000K-Bulbs.aspx
15w 10k 18" bulb

the new bulb is 33watt 6.7k spectrum indoor plant bulb. Which I will try next.

At this current time the only thing different is I dont have that fuge up...and my tank has no signs of Cyano at all after a few days and having one black out day there are no mini bubbles on rocks or anything.

I am beginning to isolate my Cyano breeding ground to be the fuge..

Secondary Problem: Plants do not like to live in my fuge or main display.. my Seaweed red type....just died... flat out kicked the bucket in a few days... chaeto died some lived most died... this plant that has thick round leaves and is calc based died in a few days....

It seems something in my tank is killing plants.... maybe my cyano break outs have been caused by slowly killed off chaeto ...increasing DOC's.

The only thing I can think of is my abundance of phosban ...i used the whole thing in a sock in a fluval 205 ...I check it before every water change to see if I need to change it yet.... phosphates don't even register at all.

*note I placed the phosban in the mesh sock then wraped it up with foam pad and placed it in the middle basket to avoid granual dust rub down. To prevent killing my tank so I did take cautions.**


about SKIM HARDER: What do you mean? I am using the Coral Life 220g rated skimmer on a 55gallon tank. It's always on and I set it on the lowest ring on the cup (instructions show the 3 rings) the lower you set it the dryer the skimmate...so I set it to produce a dry skim foam.

 

[warforged]

Tank Livestock and I will do a advanced test tonight to get you numbers guys.

Baby Blue tang
2 clowns
red scooter blenny
Watchman Gobby
Sand sifter gobby
Sally Light Foot Crab
Red Wrasse (baby)

Corals: Star Polyps, Small Toadstool leather, Fingertype leather unknown name, two rose bubble anemone, Torch Coral (two heads) and a barnacle , Maxima Clam, and some unknown plate type coral 3" diameter.., blue clovers 1" patch.

Thats all I have in my tank...

 

[DonW]

Why does the Salt fuel the Cyano? Also I set up with nothing in it as you said to.

There is something in ocean pure that fuels the cyano either P or N cant remember which.

If you have cyano your providing it the food to live and survive.

Don

 

[warforged]

There is something in ocean pure that fuels the cyano either P or N cant remember which.

If you have cyano you are/B] providing it the food to live and survive.

Don

My feeding is a pinch of flake formula food brand. every other day I use mysis shrimp cube...every 4 days bioplankton.

am I over doing it?

 

[returnofsid]

I would say that whatever substrate you're putting in your fuge is partially to blame. Since you don't have Cyano problems without fuge, it's gotta be something in the fuge. You mentioned Crushed Coral. That could be your cause, or the live or dead rock. If, when you run the fuge with just water, you don't have a cyano problem, I'd say that narrows it down to whatever is IN the fuge. Could be that the rock or cc has cyano and you're fueling it with your fuge lights and feedings.

As for feedings, are you rinsing the mysis shrimp cubes with RO/DI water before feedings? Lots of frozen foods and FULL of phosphates when purchased.

If you do want sand and/or live rock in your fuge, I'd suggest using sand, as apposed to Crushed Coral. I'd also suggest killing the sand by bleaching, boiling or something. Then rinsing it VERY well, then allowing it to completely dry. Either that or go buy a bag of new live sand.

What is it you're trying to accomplish with a fuge? Nutrient export? Safe place for pods to grow?? This will help decide if you even need anything other than Macro.

You mention that you're having trouble getting Macros to grow. Chaeto will almost always grow well in a fuge, as long as it's got enough flow and light. Could be that you need to upgrade the feed pump for the HOB fuge. I've done that with my CPR Aquafuge and it does a great job.