Sand Stirring substrates
- Thread starter Anthony Calfo
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aquariumdebacle
electrolyte addict
Sand beds and aquaria in general always start with a maximum diversity and decline in species variation over time without additional inputs. This is "survival of the fittest" What usually happens is that a small number of species become populous and dominant. Sand beds only increase variability in that species that must live in a substrate and cannot adapt are present as opposed to a bare-bottom tank where diversity in totality may be more but lacking creatures that require a substrate. Nothing inherent in a design is going to increase variability. Animals will thrive where they are capable of adaptation. I put a refugium in and a sand bed and did not notice any increased amount of organisms, most probably because of the school of damsels.
Anthony-
hooper had asked about his sandsifting star.My 300G has a DSB-started with 6",but I am down to 3-4" due to the fact that the top tends to encrust,and I remove it through siphoning.The crust is about 1 mm thick and started after a year or so.I imagine this is due to the depletion of the sand bed fauna.I rarely see a bristle worm or much else in the bed-I must have something in this tank that is eating them.Since the DSB population is pretty much dessimated,I was thinking of adding a couple of sand sifting stars,and perhaps some other types of sand sifting creatures.Is this a good idea,or will these stars,etc tend to push organics furthur down into the substrate(fine oolitic sand)?I don't want to remove the DSB as it it not causing any problems tank wise.I do have 3 cucumbers in the tank.
hooper had asked about his sandsifting star.My 300G has a DSB-started with 6",but I am down to 3-4" due to the fact that the top tends to encrust,and I remove it through siphoning.The crust is about 1 mm thick and started after a year or so.I imagine this is due to the depletion of the sand bed fauna.I rarely see a bristle worm or much else in the bed-I must have something in this tank that is eating them.Since the DSB population is pretty much dessimated,I was thinking of adding a couple of sand sifting stars,and perhaps some other types of sand sifting creatures.Is this a good idea,or will these stars,etc tend to push organics furthur down into the substrate(fine oolitic sand)?I don't want to remove the DSB as it it not causing any problems tank wise.I do have 3 cucumbers in the tank.
wave98
Pearly
I have used about 1 1/2" of 1-2mm above my oolitic sand, and have not experienced a "crusting" problem, but I also have a good bit of predators there ( as in crabs and cuke and bristle stars ). I think there needs to be a careful balance of sand stirrers vs "fauna", and I can't say what that is.
> Wave98
> Wave98
Anthony Calfo
Well-known member
I (really!) do not believe that sand crusting is from reduced biodiversity. I never believed that DSBs have or can get any significant (relative to wild substrates) biodiversity in the first place. Rather... the crusting is from chemical misteps (Ca dosing/spiking, pH drops... a complex combination of things) and/or poor DSB management on your part... like presuming infuana would be an adequate source of bioturbation
Inadequate water flow and the sinking of excessivel solids over time from it is a greater burden/handicap to DSBs than the existence of "adequate" biodiversity for sand stirring. This is one of the (valid) criticisms IMO of DSBs, in my opinion.
Yet I have run DSBs since the early 90's with success without exception. I credit my positive experiences to low bioloads, high water flow, aggressive skimming and large water changes. In a phrase... my style of husbandry does not allow my DSBs to become nutrient sinks. Most aquarists do not want to run that style of husbandry... and so many have trouble with DSB. Hence the sorry debates we see.
My advice on the sand sifting star is... don't. Ever. Please. You will just watch it starve to death slowlyl in 1-3 years at best. It would be treating the symptom (crusting) and not the problem (water flow, nutrient export... solids in particular) IMO.
Anth
Inadequate water flow and the sinking of excessivel solids over time from it is a greater burden/handicap to DSBs than the existence of "adequate" biodiversity for sand stirring. This is one of the (valid) criticisms IMO of DSBs, in my opinion.
Yet I have run DSBs since the early 90's with success without exception. I credit my positive experiences to low bioloads, high water flow, aggressive skimming and large water changes. In a phrase... my style of husbandry does not allow my DSBs to become nutrient sinks. Most aquarists do not want to run that style of husbandry... and so many have trouble with DSB. Hence the sorry debates we see.
My advice on the sand sifting star is... don't. Ever. Please. You will just watch it starve to death slowlyl in 1-3 years at best. It would be treating the symptom (crusting) and not the problem (water flow, nutrient export... solids in particular) IMO.
Anth
wave98
Pearly
Anthony Calfo said:I (really!) do not believe that sand crusting is from reduced biodiversity. I never believed that DSBs have or can get any significant (relative to wild substrates) biodiversity in the first place. Rather... the crusting is from chemical misteps (Ca dosing/spiking, pH drops... a complex combination of things) and/or poor DSB management on your part... like presuming infuana would be an adequate source of bioturbation
Inadequate water flow and the sinking of excessivel solids over time from it is a greater burden/handicap to DSBs than the existence of "adequate" biodiversity for sand stirring. This is one of the (valid) criticisms IMO of DSBs, in my opinion.
My advice on the sand sifting star is... don't. Ever. Please. You will just watch it starve to death slowlyl in 1-3 years at best. It would be treating the symptom (crusting) and not the problem (water flow, nutrient export... solids in particular) IMO.
Anth
Are there any critters that are of benefit to keeping the substrate surface clean and "mixed or stirred", that are not considered to be "overly predatory" to the "infauna"?
Such as cucumbers, or starfish, or nassarius snails. or "whatever"?
Any reccomendations?
> Wave98
Casperson
Active member
I can speak from an experience I've had recently with my deep sand bed turning to a phospate sink. Low water movement #1 problem! I increased my water flow, added new skimmer, (worth it's money), and increased water turnover rate, and always do 20% weekly water change, and don't over feed. You should see a before and after picture of my tank. Too bad I don't have a before pict!
It's amazing how simple maintanance and common sense can make ALL the difference. Thank you Anthony for all your expertise.
Tom C.
It's amazing how simple maintanance and common sense can make ALL the difference. Thank you Anthony for all your expertise.
Tom C.
Last edited:
Anthony Calfo
Well-known member
you are very welcome, my friend. The "trick" to DSBs is like any other challenge (in the hobby, life at large, etc): understanding.
But for the common reality of the way most folks run their tanks (low water flow... often times with weak routine maintenance/water changes/dilution) and the way most folks want to run their tanks (heavy bioloads of big fishes such as tangs, andin tanks packed(!) with corals)... the fact is that DSBs are not for typical aquarists.
But for those that do want to have/enjoy any substrate at the bottom successfully... it is truly simple enough to achieve.
BB, DSB and anything in between can work for anybody with a proper understanding (and willingness to apply) the needs of that style of husbandry.
Thanks for the update Tom
But for the common reality of the way most folks run their tanks (low water flow... often times with weak routine maintenance/water changes/dilution) and the way most folks want to run their tanks (heavy bioloads of big fishes such as tangs, andin tanks packed(!) with corals)... the fact is that DSBs are not for typical aquarists.
But for those that do want to have/enjoy any substrate at the bottom successfully... it is truly simple enough to achieve.
BB, DSB and anything in between can work for anybody with a proper understanding (and willingness to apply) the needs of that style of husbandry.
Thanks for the update Tom
What difference would it be if you used silica sand instead of aragonite sand? I used fine silica for my first tank and it did very well for several years and when I tore it down it wasn't very dirty at all compared to the aragonite sand (coarser) that I have now. With all the calcium and alkalinity additions we all do now I doubt the aragonite does much to buffer the water anyway.
Anthony Calfo
Well-known member
this one has been covered before, mate... but the gist of it is that aragonite is oolitic and, composition aside, has the benefit of not packing or settling very tightly but rather is fluid and tumbles... thus diatoms and nusiance algae do not settle very well or easily upon it.
Silica sand is angular and "sharp" and as such moves less and can pack rather tightly. That contributes to its reputation that it "grow" more brown algae.
Silica sand is angular and "sharp" and as such moves less and can pack rather tightly. That contributes to its reputation that it "grow" more brown algae.
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