mattseattle
Well-known member
well maybe this is a sign that we should start trading a cup or so of our sand between each other to better seed our tanks....thoughts?
Sandbed Removal Complete - Heavy Graphics
- Thread starter MtnDewMan
- Start date
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David Winther
Active member
OK, where is the sand for this coming from? Last year we all brought some of our sand in and let it brew for a few weeks and then handed it back out. I think that would be a great idea to do again.
I have to say that this is the first time I have really liked your aquascaping since the old 29 gal! It looks SO much better. Your last 'scape was great, but with the growth and density of corals it was looking pretty packed and uniform in there. You've got a nice little bommie going on in the left...very cool Chuck, can wait to see how it progresses.
After the whole incident with Bomber's tank, I think sandbed removal may become more "en vogue" over the next year or so.
After the whole incident with Bomber's tank, I think sandbed removal may become more "en vogue" over the next year or so.
mattseattle
Well-known member
yeah i like the idea of a sand swap. my sand is not very lively yet though.
Ya Bomber's tank looks really nice with the sand all gone and him using that Starboard bottom. Not to mention how much flow he's got going through it also. Will be really interesting to see how it develops. Both him and MtnDewMan's are starting at about the same time so will be great to see how Bomber's huge tank and MtnDew's smaller tank go without the DSB.
David: I agree that DSB's can work great if done properly. I doubt a DSB can be done effectively in a 55g tank. So in Matt's and my case it'll be better to go with a shallow bed.
I'm not too experienced in the hobby yet but I've been reading loads while at work. As for my tank, I'm having some algae problems that I'm battling so I'm probably doing something wrong too. I've got Red Slime in the fuge with the DSB and Cyano and Redslime in the main tank. Going to pick up a few Turbo Snails today to help hopefully.
David: I agree that DSB's can work great if done properly. I doubt a DSB can be done effectively in a 55g tank. So in Matt's and my case it'll be better to go with a shallow bed.
I'm not too experienced in the hobby yet but I've been reading loads while at work. As for my tank, I'm having some algae problems that I'm battling so I'm probably doing something wrong too. I've got Red Slime in the fuge with the DSB and Cyano and Redslime in the main tank. Going to pick up a few Turbo Snails today to help hopefully.
mattseattle
Well-known member
so then i should stay with a 3" sand bed in my 55g? or should i go ahead and go up to 5 - 6"?
thoughts?
thoughts?
mattseattle
Well-known member
hehe....well i'm sure some of the critters would last if we did a priority mailing. 
my sand isn't very alive right now though...it's only about 6 weeks old.
my sand isn't very alive right now though...it's only about 6 weeks old.
You can trade sand until your face turns blue...I think it comes down to how much nutrients your sandbed can hold. Once it's full, your system is in trouble. Trading cups won't work, but removing a good half of your entire sandbed and swapping it out for new stuff might keep you in the running.
mattseattle
Well-known member
i understand that.....but with brand new sand i don't think it could hurt me to have a few cups from different people
While I agree that an improperly funtionning sandbed isn't a good thing to have.
I can say that one seeded well and not in a tank that is hunted clean will keep working fine.
I just moved my sandbed into a new 33 a couple of months ago. Prior to that it was aged in a tub with lights fish skimmer etc for nearly a year. Prior to that it was in my 45 cube, and that my old 33.
I see an amazing amount of life in there. Spaghetti worms, pods, bristle worms, peppermint snails, mini brittle stars, etc etc. In fact each day I see more and more.
I am taking a stab in the dark but I am betting the tanks that end up with a dead sandbed are the ones with acrive hunters such as butterflies, wrasses etc.
If you don't keep the life in there stirring and mixing and cleaning yes it will die and yes then it will become a detriment to your tank and not something to aid in the upkeep of your system. It will become a trap for detritus and excess nutrients et al.
With that said I am betting that if you don't actively "recharge" the DSB regularly you are going to end up replacing it all. Or removing it entirely. The recharges are more frequently required depending upon how well your fish hunt and clean.
but that is my take on it.
take it with a grain of salt.
I can say that one seeded well and not in a tank that is hunted clean will keep working fine.
I just moved my sandbed into a new 33 a couple of months ago. Prior to that it was aged in a tub with lights fish skimmer etc for nearly a year. Prior to that it was in my 45 cube, and that my old 33.
I see an amazing amount of life in there. Spaghetti worms, pods, bristle worms, peppermint snails, mini brittle stars, etc etc. In fact each day I see more and more.
I am taking a stab in the dark but I am betting the tanks that end up with a dead sandbed are the ones with acrive hunters such as butterflies, wrasses etc.
If you don't keep the life in there stirring and mixing and cleaning yes it will die and yes then it will become a detriment to your tank and not something to aid in the upkeep of your system. It will become a trap for detritus and excess nutrients et al.
With that said I am betting that if you don't actively "recharge" the DSB regularly you are going to end up replacing it all. Or removing it entirely. The recharges are more frequently required depending upon how well your fish hunt and clean.
but that is my take on it.
take it with a grain of salt.
I have to agree with David to a point. I dont think DSB's are bad, but I do believe most folks dont know how maintain them (and if they did they might not get them in the first place) , dont know thier limitations, and really they way they are designed right now is not the best way to do them. Most DSB's are setup as 4 to 6 inches of sand. This ammount is just not needed. 2 inches of sand will give you a perfectly running DSB with a full aerobic and anerobic zone, which basically gives you the critter and the denitrification you need. Everything deeper then this is an anoxic zone, and yields no critters (except for nasty bacteria and enzynes) and has no real benefit to our closed system, and as mentioned above will eventually turn into a sink for all products that enter it that are not nitrogen based.
Most folks believe that LS (as it is regarded in a DSB world) is bacteria laced sand. But in a DSB it has to be populated by critters such as pods, worms, and so on. These critter get the movement going in the aerobic zone that is needed to migrate nitrates and nitrogen off gassing.
IMHO all this is set up for the processing of detritus, when in reality all we have to do is shyphon off the detritus and then not worry about it.
Mike
Most folks believe that LS (as it is regarded in a DSB world) is bacteria laced sand. But in a DSB it has to be populated by critters such as pods, worms, and so on. These critter get the movement going in the aerobic zone that is needed to migrate nitrates and nitrogen off gassing.
IMHO all this is set up for the processing of detritus, when in reality all we have to do is shyphon off the detritus and then not worry about it.
Mike
Ooops sorry on the DSB swap we are having this year I have a couple of tanks that have a buch of LS in them, at the clubs expence we purchased detrovoir kits from IPSF and INland Aquatics and seeded them heavily, I have also put a bunch of fresh LR at times in the sand to seed it from their to. So I would say we have a pretty healthy perculating LSB brewing. We will take this sand and pass it out to all members who want it.,
mike
mike
This is a great thread of information, glad I pulled my sand out to start it ... haha ... keep it going.
Fragman
Well-known member
I may be next???
I have been battling all sorts of Algae problems for months now without definative results. I have mostly tried to overpower Bryopsis and now red slime algae with critters that eat it. I have had limited very limited success.
Two weeks ago I tore out my calurpa bed (infested with red slime) and replaced it with live rock and "dead" old live rock. I removed the light and will promote the rowth of sponges, tunicates, worms... This worked well for me a couple of years ago in a regular sump. I left the 2-3 inches of fine sand for now but it may need to be removed later.
It will be great to have you guys all check it out in a few weeks and make recommendations.
Viva la Frag Swap!
Paul
I have been battling all sorts of Algae problems for months now without definative results. I have mostly tried to overpower Bryopsis and now red slime algae with critters that eat it. I have had limited very limited success.
Two weeks ago I tore out my calurpa bed (infested with red slime) and replaced it with live rock and "dead" old live rock. I removed the light and will promote the rowth of sponges, tunicates, worms... This worked well for me a couple of years ago in a regular sump. I left the 2-3 inches of fine sand for now but it may need to be removed later.
It will be great to have you guys all check it out in a few weeks and make recommendations.
Viva la Frag Swap!
Paul
Paul,
You are still running a DSB, right?
You are still running a DSB, right?
Fragman
Well-known member
Yes, I'm still running deep sand beds
However I'm also running plenums. Mike and I discussed this about a year ago after I moved. He has no problem with the plenum when they are not "compromised". He believes that due to the three moves that my plenums are compromised due to stiring that resulted in algal penitration of the lower anerobic layers. The algae produce Oxygen that defeats the oxygen free zone rendering them less or even none effective.
Additional problems that I caused was the addition of fine grade sand that cloggs up the flow through the plenum. We need to kick this one around a bit. I've been riding it out with the intent of setting up a larger system in place of the one that I have. Hmmmmmmm????
A 500 gal. Starfire Bowfront built into my entry way wall sounds pretty good. Chuck would you loan me 10 to 12 grand? Come on I'll give you as big a hunk of the Blue staghorn as you want.
Paul
However I'm also running plenums. Mike and I discussed this about a year ago after I moved. He has no problem with the plenum when they are not "compromised". He believes that due to the three moves that my plenums are compromised due to stiring that resulted in algal penitration of the lower anerobic layers. The algae produce Oxygen that defeats the oxygen free zone rendering them less or even none effective.
Additional problems that I caused was the addition of fine grade sand that cloggs up the flow through the plenum. We need to kick this one around a bit. I've been riding it out with the intent of setting up a larger system in place of the one that I have. Hmmmmmmm????
A 500 gal. Starfire Bowfront built into my entry way wall sounds pretty good. Chuck would you loan me 10 to 12 grand? Come on I'll give you as big a hunk of the Blue staghorn as you want.
Paul
tamarindthai
Well-known member
hi paul,,,,it 's gonna take more than just your blue stags,+++,it's that right mike?.
