SE lamps on HQI ballasts

[Kinerson]

Hi guys (Kevin),

I'm still struggling on my lighting decision. I want a bluish light with high PAR and came to the conclusion that the only way to do this without adding more actinics or jumping up to 400w would be to overdrive a bluer lamp with a 250w HQI ballast. Based on Sanjays work it seems like the best choice is the Hamilton 14,000k 250w SE. The Par nearly doubles to 99 and color is on the bluer spectrum. This combo is has the highest PAR of the bluer lamps.

My concern is what type of life span will I get out of a overdriven SE lamp. Not surprising, Hamilton does not reccomend overdriving there lamps. They said they could blowup and at best last 3 months. I can't help but feel that any company would of said the same to protect themselves. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Ed Hahn]

hmmmm, I used Hamilton 14k SE bulbs for a while. I liked them. In fact it was a combination I will most likely go back to. The more blue you go the less bulb life in my oppinion. I have two HQI ballast.
I did burst the two bulbs. I broke one XM 10k and one Hamilton 14K. I beleive it was due to water splashing. I think I did that on old hamilton ballast also, non HQI.

 

[Kinerson]

Ed,
So you have used the Hamilton14k SE 250W on a 250w HQI ballast (just want to be sure I follow ya)? What type of life span did you get? How was the color? I heard it was whiter then the Radiums, more of an ice blue.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Ed Hahn]

250 watt PFO HQI ballast and Hamilton regular ballast. If you look in my old pictures of my ninety. You will see what they looked like.

 

[Kinerson]

Sorry Ed still unclear. Are you saying that you ran 2 ballasts, one was an HQI and the other a regular ballast, both running hamilton 14000k's?
I'll check out your pictures!
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Ed Hahn]

yes, I did at one time. Then I went to a Coralvue 15K and Hamilton. I sold my old tank to LFS with that combo. I myself still liked the Hamilton bulb. I got good growth out of Hamilton. The overdriven bulb was less blue in my experience.

 

[Kinerson]

Interesting.
Your pictures look real nice and focused. The color looks great. Did you grow any sps under the lights?
So what type of bulb life span did you get with that combo? I heard 6 months is pretty typical.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Ed Hahn]

Greg,
You should be able to grow any SPS under 14K Hamilton combination. Its my oppinion that a 20k bulb will usually last about 6-8 months. My experience with Hamilton 14K was about a year. A 10 K XM or Ushio 10K will last over a year. Thats my oppinion.

When your coral stops growing its usually time to switch bulbs.

 

[Kinerson]

Thanks Ed. It's cool to talk with someone who has run this combo. It's equally as cool to see some pictures under that lighting.
Greg

 

[kevinpo]

Most mogul mount bulbs 10,000K - 15,000K will last 12-14 months on the recommended ballast for that bulb. You can knock off 2-3 months when driven by an HQI ballast.

I should be receiving my Quantum Meter from Apogee this week. I plan to test some of the bulbs to measure the drop in PAR over time. I would like to test 5 bulbs of the same brand and see what the differences are from bulb to bulb. Most of the published data is for a sample size of one. I would also like to test different ballasts of the same type by the same mfg. to see if they drive the bulb at the same PAR.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Kinerson]

Very cool Kevin. I would love to hear your results as they come in.

Hamilton told me that the SE bulbs have a starter built inside them but the HQI ballast comes with two of there own. The starter in the bulb is not designed to operate with the two other starters of the HQI ballast and results in problems. That was the reason they did not reccomend using a SE bulb on an HQI ballast. I take it that this is true but not to the severity that they claimed (bulb will explode or fail within 3 months)?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[kevinpo]

Hi Greg,
The Hamilton 250W SE 14,000K bulbs are probe start type design for use with an ANSI M58 ballast.
Here is a link that shows the difference between probe and pulse start bulbs.
Note: HQI is not included here.
http://members.fortunecity.com/paulerik/id50.htm

This link lists the ANSI ballast codes for some of the bulbs available today.
http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/metal-halide-ansi

Hamilton is technically correct that using the wrong bulb/ballast combination can lead to problems so use at your own risk (a little CYA for me too ). I just want to give you enough information to make an educated decision on your own. The name of the game in this hobby is good information and lots of it

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Kinerson]

Thanks Kevin

 

[Kinerson]

Here's a question for ya. What's the worst thing you have seen (heard) happen to a SE probe start lamp on a HQI ballast? Anything more serious then the bulb exploding?
Thanks,
Greg

 

[plack]

Just a thought. IF I stress IF it exploded for whatever reason the glass and any chemicals inside the bulb would now be in the fish tank. The glass would be tricky to get out. The chemicals however would be almolst impossable to get out what liquified.

 

[Ed Hahn]

Paul,
When I broke a bulb it was usually the glass breaking in half, A loud Crack. Glass never fell into tank. I want to think it was difference in temperature too fast, water splash. I never dropped the other end of bulb into water as of yet. I had three do this. It was due to water splashing in my old ninety. When water is low in your sump, you get air bubbles sometimes. That was my problem. I had a 2100 gph return pump spraying air and water through two sea swirls.

 

[Kinerson]

I have a plasic shield on my fixture. I think it cuts PAR by 20% but I didn't like the idea of lamp stuff falling into my tank.

Ed- It's interesting to hear yout experience with lamps breaking. I have a Blond Naso that lately really seems to splash on ocasion. I think I should keep my shield on

Greg

 

[mfinn]

I use a Hamilton 250 watt se bulb with a PFO HQI ballast.
I am on my second bulb with no problems. I used the first bulb about 10 months before replacing it with a new one.
This is on my zoanthid tank with no fish.

 

[kevinpo]

I've run about 55 metal halide 400W bulbs using the PFO HQI ballast.
These are the brands:
XM
Krystal Star
Radium
Ushio
PFO
CoralVue
Reeflux
The biggest problem I've encountered is that some of the bulbs won't fire when they are new. Since I have so many ballasts I move the bulb to another ballast where it fires. Interesting enough though if you run the bulb for a few weeks and then move it back to the ballast where it wouldn't fire before it always works fine. So my conclusion is that after they burn in they are easier to fire.
I've had a couple crack but still keep running. I noticed the cracks when I went to replace them at one year. I believe they may have been defective but it is possible they could have been splashed by a fish. I have heard of a few se bulbs breaking the outer sleeve but none exploding from the inner envelope (in the last 11 years). The biggest problem when the outer shell breaks is that the corals get bleached from too much UV radiation. This can happen in just an hour or two. Sometimes they recover but often they just get too burned and die.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Kinerson]

Kevin-
I have experienced new bulbs not fireing on old ballasts. If I take an older bulb I can then get it to fire but not a new bulb. It's like the starter on the starter gets weaker as it gets older and dosen;t have enough power to ignite a new bulb.

Guys-
You have been very helpful and I really appreciate your posts. I think I'm going to take the plunge and go with an HQI ballast running the Hamilton 14000k. The PAR (ppfd 99)will be a 33% increase over my existing lamps (ppfd 73) which should make a noticable difference.