Setting up a new 125, help with configuration

[Skawt]

I am looking to upgrade from my current 75g to a new 125g system and want to get some help on a good setup. My current system (Steven11's old 75) has worked well but the return is getting cranky (and is loud) and I want to run a refugium and skimmer.

I am starting with a new 125g reef ready with dual overflows. Ideally I can keep my current system up and running and will just migrate the lights over to the new tank so will be looking at getting a completely new filtration system setup.

I was reading about a DIY 55g sump at http://jjgeisler.com/reeftank/55g_sump-refugium2.htmhttp://jjgeisler.com/reeftank/55g_sump-refugium2.htm. This seems like a pretty nice setup and should fit well in a 72x18 stand.

I would also love to have an RODI setup with auto top off but I am not sure where I would have the room for the plumbing, feel free to make any suggestions.

Of course budget is a consideration but we really want to get a good setup that is easy to maintain.

Thanks for any info!

 

[Skawt]

Ok, have the tank and stand, will start throwing up some pictures, always fun to have something to look at, right? I really am trying to think this through, no hurry since we already have the 75g in place.

There is no water supply anywhere near the tank location. The tank is going on an outside wall so I am considering just drilling a hole and setting up a 55g drum outside to use as a Kalkwasser auto top off. I am currently evaporating 1-1.5g per day and expect that to jump to 2-2.5g with the new tank so a 55g drum would give me around 3 weeks between fill-ups.

Is there an affordable RODI unit that would hook up to a garden hose and give me 25-30g day flow (Dumb question here but would you be able to get away with tap water if adding lime? It sounds like the metals, etc. will settle out anyways).

What about heating the water outside in the winter? Can I just throw a heater in there set to the lowest setting just to keep it from freezing?

Looking at skimmer options now, feel free to advise.

 

[jrgilles]

I have a 75g DT, 20 fuge and 50 breeder sump. I think the sizes are great. I also have an 18 gallon rubbermaid-type bin ($8 at lowes) that I use as an ATO. I bought a great DIY ATO kit,

http://www.aquahub.com/store/product27.html

it has a switch, and a backup (so if something sticks, it will still shut off and not overflow the sump) and also has a switch on the reservoir so if it drains, it will not activate the sump (so you don't burn up the pump running it dry)

I was originally going to put a fuge built into my sump, but after a lot of discussion, I separated the two. 50 gallons just isn't a lot of room for a fuge and the sump. Decided it was a lot better to do them separate, and then the sump can be in the dark where you won't get tons of algae buildup, etc. You can then have a larger return tank with live rock for better filtration, and no algae.

I put the fuge next to my display tank, outside the stand. Very fun to watch, as there are tons of pods, worms, etc. crawling around.

Here are some pics, but they are a bit old. ATO isn't included, but some of the construction is. Hope it helps some.


http://picasaweb.google.com/jrgilles/AquariumHardware?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/jrgilles/AquariumConstruction?feat=directlink

Oh, and you should check out melev's reef

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

Although I would really recommend NOT trying to get both a sump and fuge in the same tank, better keeping them separate IMO.

rob

 

[Skawt]

Thanks for the tips. I am starting to lean towards using my current sump with a separate fuge as you describe. I have enough room in my sump for a skimmer, need to find details on plumbing the fuge (Probably a 20 gal.)

We are going to paint the back, what is a good brand/type?

Need to upgrade vehicle before I can upgrade tank length again:

Here is the stand and tank:

 

[jrgilles]

I drilled 2 bulkheads for my fuge. I have an overflow coming in on a flexable pvc pipe, then 2 bulkheads for drains (a primary drain, and then a secondary that isn't active above the water line, but is just there as a backup incase the first drain clogs to save my floor.)

I did a kind of ghetto drilling job, but you're welcome to borrow my dremel tool and bits.

Here is how I did it if you are interested:

First I put the bulkhead on the tank and traced around it with a sharpie.
Then I used a 3/16" glass bit and drilled a small hole.
I then used a side cutting tile bit to cut out along the line. It just grinds the glass as you trace around. Worked great and cut the glass like butter. Gotta keep the glass and drill bit wet though, and make sure the bit is very tight in the dremel tool so it doesn't shoot off. This way of cutting works for 10 gal. and 20 gallon tanks, but I don't know if I'd do anything thicker than 1/4" glass with it. Anyway, feel free to borrow the bits if you want to.

rob

 

[Skawt]

The stand is limiting my choices a bit as the openings are not that big. I am going to keep my current sump and do a seperate fuge as you guys have recommended. I would like to find a 20 gal tank for next to nothing to use a a fuge and will drill the bulkheads (maybe will need a few tanks to get it right )

I am going to use my current sump. It is 30x12x12 with a baffle close to the middle (14" and 16" sections). I would like to get this plumbed up this weekend if possible, is there a store in the Seattle area that sells the locline and bulkheads (We have a McLendons nearby which usually has bulkheads and pipe).

If there is anyone that just loves plumbing up systems and does not charge and arm and a leg? I would love some help as my experience is limited to my current setup and I want to try and get it done right on this setup.

Also, if anyone has a cannister filter sitting around that they would be willing to sell cheap let me know. I need to get the sump out of my current system.

 

[vinny2261]

Measure twice before cutting I recomend you have Unions on both side of the pump. With the ALL Glass tank , if you bought the overflow system with the tank you should not need ball valves. However sometimes I have seen the o-ring inside the drain tube leak and let water pass, so ball valve is not a bad idea. or you could empty out the overflow boxes. Since I do no plan on moving my tank I "hard" plumbed it. Which means if I have to take it down I would have to cut the plumbing apart. This was because of space issues under the All Glass Pine stand. Also found that trying to get the exact measurements and angles can really be a pain in th ass. So I used about a foot of the flexable spa hose to help in the proper fitting on the drain and the return side. I will get some pics to you on the tank I am currently putting together. On the All Glass tank it has a 3/4" return and a 1" drain. I am plumbing mine with a 1" return to the tank and a
1 1/2" drain to the sump. This should allow for better flow and drain for the system. Really plumbing is not to bad. Can be messy. You could use some rubber gloves, put everything together on a drop cloth and a piece of cardboard. A wood saw and cheap miter box to cut your PVC. Measuring tape and go for it.. Wish I was closer to give some support. Hope this helps a little for you.
Vince

 

[jrgilles]

I just set up my plumbing, and I put in a lot of ball valves, and a ton of unions, so I can take pieces off if I want to change anything.

I have a 75 DT, 20 fuge and 50 sump. I'm using 2 1" drain lines. I set up a 'herbie' style drain, which runs completely silent. To do this, you have to have a ball valve on the bottom of the drain line so you can back the water up so there is no air in the system. Then you also have to have a second drain, incase of a clog or to pick up any water backup, as the herbie drain flow varies a bit. I like this drain style, as its totally silent. If I were to redo my herbie drain, I'd probably use a gate valve instead of a ball for more control. You can buy a gate valve from marine depot I think.

My main drain also splits off for a line to the fuge, where I have another ball valve so I can regulate the flow to the fuge.

If you have the cash, I'd recommend putting in many valves and unions, so you can adapt your system as you see fit.

On the return pump, I also have it going 2 other directions besides back to the tank. One way it has a hose barb where I have a drain line hooked up (with a ball valve). This lets me use the return pump for water changes (which is REALLY fast, 900 GPH flow out the drain line when I open it up.) and I have another fork that goes back to the sump (so if I want to reduce flow to the tank, I can let if flow back into the sump. This is a better way to reduce flow than an inline valve, which restricts flow and could cause unnecessary wear on the pump.) This is controlled by another ball valve. When the pump is in full operation, I have the drain closed and the return to sump line closed.

Also, my drain comes down and across the sump, then turns down again to go to the fill chamber. When it turns down to the fill tank, instead of a 90 deg bend, I put a T in, and a short piece of pipe going up (maybe 4" with a cap on it) This will make the drain quieter (no 'thumping' sound from vacuum release) To see what I'm talking about, you can probably look at the plumbing under your sink. Its a pretty standard thing to add in to drain lines. If your kitchen sink doesn't have this, listen when you shut it off, you'll hear a 'thud' sound from in the wall when the water breaks the vacuum and drops all of a sudden.

You can see some of my plumbing pictures in the picasa albums I posted earlier in this thread.

I'd totally come help you out with questions if you weren't so far away >.<

rob

 

[Skawt]

Thanks for the good words and advice. I remember making way too many trips to HD and McLendons last time so will over purchase this time and return what I don't need.

I think I scored an acrylic 30g tall tank for a fuge so at least I won't have to worry about cutting glass!

Still trying to figure out the RODI Kalk auto top off. The ground outside where the tank sits is a couple feet lower than the floor in the house so I probably won't be able to get it high enough for a gravity feed. I am trying to convince my wife we could put the top off system in the garage with a small hole drilled in the floor for the return. Would need to pump it 20 feet or so horizontally and maybe 6 feet vertically.

 

[jrgilles]

I just bought a house a half mile from Lowe's. Works great

 

[roscoe]

You don't want the rodi to feed strait into your sump. Always try to use some sort of container to hold your rodi water for top off. The reason for this is when you 1st turn on your rodi the 1st few gallons are not pure and still contain trace contaminants. so if you have it inline with your top off you will just be dumping water that isn't totally pure into your system and that can lead to algea blooms. A member here did this and he was battleing HA for sometime. So there is another thing for you to think about.

 

[Skawt]

You don't want the rodi to feed strait into your sump. Always try to use some sort of container to hold your rodi water for top off. The reason for this is when you 1st turn on your rodi the 1st few gallons are not pure and still contain trace contaminants. so if you have it inline with your top off you will just be dumping water that isn't totally pure into your system and that can lead to algea blooms. A member here did this and he was battleing HA for sometime. So there is another thing for you to think about.

My plan was to use either a 30 or 55 gallon plastic barrel and mix it up as Kalkwasser to use as my top off. If I can get the go ahead to use the garage then I will also have a barrel to mix salt in and use for water changes.

 

[roscoe]

Oh Ok... I was under the impression that you wanted to tie your rodi inline with your top off.

 

[vinny2261]

If you have to set the top off tank lower than your sump you can go to a electronic float switch that would turn on a small pump to top off your tank.

 

[Skawt]

If you have to set the top off tank lower than your sump you can go to a electronic float switch that would turn on a small pump to top off your tank.

Ok, after talking to Barrier Reef the setup is much simpler, flex tubing and the Megaflow accessory kits. Picked up a Eheim 1262 for the return pump.

Had to cut out one of the supports on the new cabinet to get the sump in place but replaced it with a 2x6 so that should be stronger than the original design. Couldn't fit 1" inner diameter tubing on the drains but 1 1/4 worked perfect.

Tank is wet and no leaks

Used the extra 3/4" bulkheads from the accessory kit to plumb the refugium but quickly learned that I needed a bigger drain. Changed it to a 1" bulkhead and looks like we are good to go. I am just using a cheap Petco 225gph powerhead for the refugium, works great and is quiet, not bad for $20.

I need to trim the drain lines and get a little bit of noise reduction. It is really not that loud but I know there is some extra noise on the drains. Plus I am getting a bit of microbubbles, hopefully once the drains are fixed and the skimmer is in place (Still on the lookout for a good skimmer. Used is fine, needs to fit in a 12x12 footprint).

Best part is that there is very little draining back into the sump when the power is cut (Had to recut the return pipes a bit longer but it is great now). My old system was a crapshoot whenever the power went out.

Good timing to get this all setup as my return pump on the current system went out on Friday so they are swimming in a juryrigged tank at the moment, they have good flow, heat, and light but the wires are not pretty.

And as a bonus I discovered a free Instant Ocean beach towel in the bottom of my bucket of salt!

 

[jrgilles]

Ok, after talking to Barrier Reef the setup is much simpler, flex tubing and the Megaflow accessory kits. Picked up a Eheim 1262 for the return pump.

I really like the 1262, quiet and effecient.

Used the extra 3/4" bulkheads from the accessory kit to plumb the refugium but quickly learned that I needed a bigger drain. Changed it to a 1" bulkhead and looks like we are good to go. I am just using a cheap Petco 225gph powerhead for the refugium, works great and is quiet, not bad for $20.

Flow through your fuge should be pretty slow, easily within 3/4 inch I'd think. Maybe 3-5X per hour. That lets the pods swim around. Also don't think you want a powerhead in there, if I'm not mistaken. I don't have one in mine, and its going crazy with pods. I'd think the powerhead would keep the pods hiding in the rocks and could chew them up if they get stuck in it. That said, I am using dual 1" drains, a main drain that just has a trickle of water going through it, and a backup, that is never active unless the main drain gets clogged somehow.
pics of fuge drains:

http://picasaweb.google.com/jrgilles/AquariumHardware?feat=directlink

Best part is that there is very little draining back into the sump when the power is cut (Had to recut the return pipes a bit longer but it is great now). My old system was a crapshoot whenever the power went out.

Great piece of mind

Sounds like you're getting close. Grats! Lets see some pics

rob

 

[Skawt]

Flow through your fuge should be pretty slow, easily within 3/4 inch I'd think. Maybe 3-5X per hour. That lets the pods swim around. Also don't think you want a powerhead in there, if I'm not mistaken.

Right, I probably explained the setup wrong. The powerhead is the 'return' for the refugium (See shot below). The rocks are just thrown in. I am doing a copper treatment in the old tank so had to get the rock and all the non-fish critters moved over (You can't see them in the picture but there are a few dozen snails, a starfish, scallop, sally lightfoot, and a bunch of hermits in there. So much room!). It will be a few weeks before the fish can move to their larger quarters (but at least they will be parasite free).

Look at all the turbulence in the drain side of the sump, that is the only noise in the entire system (No skimmer yet but hopefully it won't add much to the clatter).

Next is skimmer and lights, money is starting to running out. I currently have a 48" and 24" T5 HO to give me something to start with (Had the 48" on the old system and Petco is clearing them out so grabbed a 24" to get all the way across the tank).

Hopefully I can score a skimmer in the $150 range (12x12 footprint max). Really wish there was a LED solution that would work in the $200-$300 range but the current stuff out there is either super low powered or super expensive. What else can I squeeze into the canopy? I only have like 6" clearance in there.

 

[Skawt]

Skimmer is on it's way!!!

I snagged a Lifereef Protein Skimmer VS3-24 on eBay for 1/3rd the price of a new one. I am hopeful this is a good choice. It looks like it will fit perfectly in my sump (So far nothing has fit right, this time it really needs to though!)

Now down to the lights.

I couldn't resist getting something new for the tank so I picked up a tiny Kenya Tree for $5 at Aquarium Paradise (I have never bought anything there because of the price but that seemed like a good deal). I placed on the top of the highest rock and it is looking pretty good.

It's sad to have all the fish swimming around in the 75g with minimal rock while their new home is bright and shiny new in the other room.

 

[Skawt]

Well I solved the fuge plumbing with the larger drain and took care of the gurgling by inserting a short piece of air tubing into the drain to let some air in.

I am still nervous about the drain clogging and overflowing. Is there a cheap float switch that would turn off the fuge pump if it gets to full?

I have also installed a utility light in the cabinet (cheap flourescent). Will this be enough to grow macroalgae or do I need to get something abtut stronger? Also if anyone has some chaeto to get me started I would appreciate it. I am planning on have the fuge light cycle opposite of the main tank.

 

[vinny2261]

Yes if you are worried about the drain clogging I would definitely get a screen cover. I had a snail crawled in my drain tube and it was like someone closed a valve. I was so lucky my Wife was sitting there talking to me on the phone when it happened, She unplugged the pump. That would have been a mess. LOL