Setting up my very first saltwater tank, help?

[slither75]

A little about me, I like to research a whole lot before I jump into something. I want to get into this hobby and fall in love with it so that maybe one day I can pass it along to others (to include my children). My primary concern is that if I completely mess this up, it will not be alot of fun.

My plan is to piece this together and get it up and cycling early next year. I don't want to go crazy and spend too much money before knowing that this is what I want to do and that I will devote the necessary time to it. Once my 90 is up and going for awhile and I decide to jump to a 180 or so, then I will probably go crazy with the money. I guess that is if I have money with the mortgage and my new wife desiring children soon.

I hope that this isn't too long but I want to describe where I am and what I am thinking and get some advise.

I currently have a 90 gallon acrylic tank with left hand overflow. This was my first, and only, purchase so far. I got it from baseballkid5 on this site. The return is drilled through the top right side of the tank, towards the back, with 3/4" lockline Y'd for two heads. The overflow is currently a single 1" ID line.

Here is my first set of questions:

1. I purchased a 1 1/2" bulkhead to upgrade the overflow. Is this needed?
2. I'm thinking about adding another set of lockline to the left side of the tank near the overflow. Opinions?
3. The tank came with a RIO 3100 pump. I'm thinking that this might be good for one of the overheads and then add another pump to the second just in case one pump dies, and to of course save money. Again, opinions?
4. With this idea of two pumps, is 3/4" ID line appropriate for the return line? I want to hard line the overheads all the way down to the sump/refugium.


I am going to try to get rid of some scratches first and then make a stand and hood for it. With that, I want to have all of my plumping pre-planned before making the stand. The next subject has to be the sump/refugium. My plan so far is to have the overflow go into a filter sock. From there I want my water to pass over a bed of sand and LR with caulerpa or similar. In addition, I want to add a skimmer and heater. All the other bells and whistles I think can wait.

Here is my next set of questions in regards to sumps:

5. Does my plan sound legit or am I missing any obvious items?
6. What are people's ideas / opinions regarding making your own sump?
7. What about the 30 and 40 gallon breeder tanks?
8. Does anyone have any old sumps and/or pumps that they have lying around that they may want to sell?


I know I will have more questions to come in the future as I DO NOT want to mess this up. I know it is a learning process but if I can learn some of the primary lessons through other people's life experiences, then I feel better off.

I appreciate any and all suggestions with this because after reading numerous posts on this site, and reading a couple printed books, it seems that you can achieve similar results, all good results, by setting your tank up in totally different ways.

Thanks in advance,

Ryan

 

[NaH2O]

Ryan - congrats on your tank! Research is the key, so I'm really glad you are doing it before getting water in the tank.

I'll let someone more versed in plumbing answer those questions, but I'm interested in what you are thinking of keeping. Is this going to be a reef tank, or fish only? Also, have you considered using chaetomorpha algae instead of caulerpa in your refugium? As far as filter socks go, they are fine to use regularly, however, they will need to be changed out every few days. If they are not changed out/cleaned regularly, then the organics they collected will start to pollute the tank.

Just a quick side note.... You will have mess ups . We all have them, and we all learn from them (why I'm not giving you plumbing advice lololol). The hobby takes alot of patience.

 

[Scooterman]

Welcome to RF Ryan!!
While your starting out, If I could I would make the drain to 1 1/2" In this case larger I find is better IMO, lets you have more options later maybe. Not sure in the pump, I myself after enlarging that drain in the overflow, I'd consider using an Eheim, one of the largest ones about 900/1200gph @ most. One more thing to consider would be the limits of the overflow itself but I'm thinking that @ 900/1200gph you should be fine but I'd still check that out to be sure. IMO more water is good, so If you can do a 30 or 40 for the sump that would be good, you can make baffles in it & eventually add a good skimmer.
If you want to do well to start I think reading is one of the biggest things you can do to start out, ask many questions & get many opinions
I know I didn't cover all of your questions but here is a start & a bump for others to chime in!

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!!! As for the bulkhead, a 1.5 inch bulkhead will allow for really nice flow into the sump! Just remember that the plumbing for it may get a bit bulky. As for running 2 pumps for the return, it isn't really necessary, but it is up to you. The more flow you have the better as you want to prevent any deadspots in the tank, but you don't need to make it all up through the sump. You will notice a lot of people who have acrylic tanks, usually drill it and add in a closed loop to provide their tank with flow. However that approach isn't totally necessary. Some people don't like the idea of drilling their tank and so they will just add in a few powerheads like Tunzes, Seio's etc. to do the work for them. Both have their pros and cons so you'll have to go with whichever one you feel is more appealing to you

Where the sump is concerned, that is totally up to you. Everyone has their own opinion on sump setups and the reason why is because there are many ways to go about things in this hobby and be successful. I'm sure others will chime in with their own personal thoughts, but my personal thought is I don't particularily like the idea of using caulerpa. It has a tendancy to go "sexual" if not cared for properly which can screw up your tank bigtime so I would go with a lot more "safer" option like chaeto instead. The sand and live rock in the sump IMO isn't necessary either, but up to you. Usually the rock and sand you have in the tank will be sufficient enough to provide you with all of the biological filtration and denitrification your tank will need so the little that can be kept in the sump (if for filtration purposes only) may not be really worth it. Just keep in mind that with sand and rock in your sump, sometimes it requires a lot more care in keeping it clean (the sump)detritus/waste can get trapped in there and rott so just keep that in mind. The filter sock is a good idea as well, but has it's downfalls as well. If you are prepared to change it out/clean it every 2-3 days at most, then it is a good idea in most cases to use one. However, if you're thinking you won't clean it as much and will just allow it to sit for longer periods on end, then the filter sock can work against you. Waste etc. if not removed from the filter sock regularily and if allowed to sit, will rott and break down degrading water quality which can in turn fuel nuicance algae to grow and so forth. You mentioned making your own sump which I think is a good idea! If you aren't that skilled in doing it yourself, then have someone who is do it for you, but it is always a great idea to have one custom built. The reason why is because you can design the sump perfectly to suit your needs. Baffles can be placed at whatever height you want, chambers can be the exact size you need etc so IMO, always a plus!

With that being said, don't be afraid to ask, ask, ask whatever questions you may have. We are all here to help and enjoy doing it so ask away and take your time with the hobby as patience is the key to this hobby. Good luck!!

 

[slither75]

I guess I could have included what type of tank I was planning to make it easier to answer some of my questions.

I am planning a reef tank. I am leaning more towards hard corals and SPS type corals. I plan to start reading the lighting threads after I get the plumbing and stand done. My next tank will probably be a fish-only tank so that I will have one of each.

Thanks to those who have already responded. I will continue to take this slow.

Ryan

 

[jedimike]

Begin with the end in mind. You can modify your plans along the way, but try to get an idea of exactly which fish you want and exactly which corals you want. That will tell you how much light, flow, etc you will need. For example, if you like wrasses, you will need a deep sand bed. If you like hydnophora, you will have to plan around lighting and flow and keep it from stinging others. Try to look at members tanks in your area and see what they have done and what they like/dislike about their tanks.

It's a great family hobby... even though I do all of the work, and they get all the enjoyment

 

[muss60]

We're no pro's here but here are two excellent books that have been really good to us through our learnings: The complete encyclopedia of the Saltwater Aquarium (by Nick Dakin) and The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, by Robert M. Fenner.

I can't say enough about these two books.

 

[NC2WA]

Absolutely second the motion on the following book: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, by Robert M. Fenner.

As far as my .02 cents worth, patience is the key to this hobby, go slow. I love the fact that you are researching and reading before you make a big investment into the hobby. I read several books, visited lots of fish stores, and visited forums like this for 4 months BEFORE I had a drop of water in a tank.

The other piece of advice I would add is this: The most important decisions you will make as far as hardware for your tank are: Protein skimmer and Lights.

A lot of people do not put a lot of thought into this and most of the time purchase the wrong or inadequate skimmer for their system. Then when they have an outbreak of nuisance algae which is uncontrollable, they start throwing money at the problem and most of the time it doesn't resolve the problem, which then leads to frustration which is usually followed by "this saltwater thing is too hard" and leave the hobby. I would spend at a minimum 1-2 month researching possibilities on skimmers and lights. This should give you enough time to read specs, talk to people who have the potential brands you are interested in, speak to people on this forum, etc..

I think you are on the correct path; just keep up the reading and ask question after question (it is the only way you can learn).

Sorry for the lengthy reply but I do have a passion..errr obession for this hobby.

Kirk

 

[slither75]

Thanks so far to all that have replied, none of which have been too long! :lol: I think I have my plumbing worked out. I am increasing the overflow to 1 1/2" and am using 3/4" line for the returns. I will use two pumps just because I already have a RIO 3100 which I think is good for one return line but not both. I may combine both returns to one pump later but that of course is later.

I am currently spending all my research time on what seems to be the most important aspect, the skimmer! I've read all kinds of comments from everyone about which skimmer they like. What these comments don't say much about is the price.

So here are a couple more questions:

1. If you had the opportunity to go back to where I am, brand spankin' new, how much money would you spend on a skimmer?

2. What is the best skimmer for under $500.00 and which one is best for over $500.00?

3. Is it worth just buying a premade sump or should I move forward with my idea of converting a 40 gallon breeder tank?

4. What other things would be good to have in the sump?

a. Does anyone add chemical filtration to the sump as in activated carbon, zeo-carb, or any other carb products?

b. What about biological filtration. Is just having LR in the tank and sump enough or do you add products like the Eheim substates?

c. What are advantages of wet/dry set ups? Someone told me that wet/dry really aren't needed for a reef set up. Is this correct?

5. I've heard about people using small pumps to run to another container with substate in it so that the flow is really slow, allowing more contact time with the substrate. What are people's opinions of this additional filter style and is this a wet/dry system or is the substate fully submerged?

Thanks again!

Ryan


P.S. Jedimike- the wife and I are now trying to figure out what we want to put into the tank. We visited the Seattle aquarium this weekend and have been looking through books and going to LPS.

I think I will add my first water to the tank in March or so....that is the plan!

 

[NC2WA]

Ryan,

I live in the Bothell area, you are more than welcome to come see my 375 gallon setup. It will give you an idea on what a custom setup looks like. It will also give you an idea of what a H&S skimmer over $1000 can do. When you get into the realm of big skimmers (ie, H&S, Deltec, etc.) are all good. The main reason I chose this skimmer is my tank is going to be full of large angelfish, so my bio load is going to be big. I wanted a skimmer that could handle this load AND provide great water quality. This is the heart of my system.

In the meantime, he is a link to my tank and specifically my skimmer:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/page6/

Kirk

 

[Krish]

Let's see...If I could go back I'd get myself probably a Euroreef. They are great skimmers for a pretty good price. Still there are many options out there, but some for some reason, I'd just like to get the Euroreef

As for the sump, premade vs 40 gal converted it totally up to you. Like I mentioned before, if you have the option to set you own baffle heights and chamber sizes to suit your needs best, then that will always be the best way to go and this can be accomplished either way.

Other things that are good to have in a sump is a heater, some like myself like to run a phosban reactor, if you need a chiller, it would be a great place to put the feed pump out of sight and also a nice place to run carbon.

As for biological filtration, yes...The rock shouyld be able to handle things for you. Some people use sand as well, but for me personally, I went with a bare bottom setup and my rock along with routine maintenace kept my nitrates etc at 0.

Hmmm...Advantage of a wet/dry would be that it is great for a fish only setup where nitrates aren't so much an issue. Other than that, not the greatest idea to use one. They are great at converting ammonia produced by waste into less toxic nitrite then into even less toxic nitrate in a short amount of time, but it stops there as wet/dry's have no anaerobic zones so de-nitrification cannot occur (where nitrates are converted into nitrogen gas). As a result, over time you will end up with an accumilation of nitrates which are harmful to most corals and also, a primary source of food for nuicance algae to grow which no-one wants...

Just a few thoughts! Hope that helps