Setup of my 150g tall? not sure what i need?

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the6goat6man6

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Not sure wher to start. I have a 150gal tall(48wx30hx24d) and not really sure which way to go with it. I want to do reef, there are alot of nice fish, but I like the corals better. I am new so I don't want to go too wild, I think simple will be better till i get a few years in this wonderful hobby.

So, I really like the mushrooms, zoos, a few softies, duncans, acons. I am not sure what is compatible together, but i like the colorful corals. I am do understand some just don't go together.

As far as fish, not so sure, maybe some small (1-2in) fish. Family wants me to do "Nemo", i don't know. Not so sure about fish, maybe little ones like cardinals or such?

I was thinking of setting up a 55gal fuge, will this be enough?
Maybe a 55gal sump, kind of want to go bigger but not sure i need to.
-what kind of flow should i have?
-lighting? What color temp do you need-i read bright was for penitration
-sand depth-live rock?
-WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST MACRO???
-the all important PROTEIN SKIMMER? whats best? herd alot about alot?
-?reactors? herd good and bad-do you need them?
-I run a canister, filled only with carbon-no filter pads, do i need that?

So could someone help give me a good idea of what i should do, I had to wing it all alone with the 40gal 20F/20S.
 
That's a big tank!!! :D

Is the tank acrylic or glass?? This will determine some of the recommendations you will get for flow options. I personally wouldn't shoot for any less than 40x turnover rate which is still not a whole lot to my liking, but I'm retarded when it comes to flow :shock: :p . I like tons of it, but I can do that because I like bare bottom tanks. Tanks with sand usually can't handle as much flow because of potential sandstorms

A 55 gal fuge is a really nice sized fuge. Should be more than adequet IMO depending on what you are using it for. Are you using it just for nutrient export (via macro algae) or do you want to use it for something else? Let us know..I personally wouldn't mess with adding any liverock or sand in there. Not totally necessary and may just add to your maintenance. People's opinions vary, but usually what you put in your tank (liverock and sand), should be adequet enough to filter your tank biologically.

A 55 gal sump is not bad either. Once the sump can house all of the equipment you will need (skimmer, uv sterilizer, or whatever you decide to put in there) then that is just fine. Between the fuge and sump together, that will add another 100 gals to your total system volume which is great! Increased water volume in itself is a plus as the more water volume you have the more stability you will have as things like temperature etc won't be affected as easily. Just think of dropping a cup of oil in a system with only a 10 gal capacity vs a 250 gal system. You can clearly see which one would be affected more quickly. Same thing as if you had a heater on both systems and the power went off. Obviously the 10 gal will get cold much quicker than the 250 gal so increased water volume is always a plus. Where too small of a sump is concerned, I never really think a sump can be too small only unless it can't house all of the equipment in it you need it to hold as well as if it isn't able to support any backflow it would recieve from the overflows when the return pump is turned off. :)

Lighting - On a tank 30 inches deep, if you plan to put high light demanding corals on the bottom of the tank, you will need lighting with a big punch. Probably something in 400w Metal halide range for every 2ft x 2ft section of your tank. If you plan to put the higher light demanding corals closer to the tank's surface, than you can go with a lot less. It all depends on which corals you go with and the placement of the corals. Color all depends on a personal preference to an extent. Some people like the "bluer" look while others prefer a more crisp white look. In any case, you want to use lighting that has the highest or a really good par rating which usually comes in the form of lighting from what I've seen, in the 10K range which would be a white looking bulb. In a case like this, people would just use supplemental lighting in the form of T5's, pc's, vho's etc to add in that blue tint as typically actinics don't provide the corals with a whole lot of useable light, but people still like that blue tint. Or..You can just look for a bulb (if going metal halides) that is in the 12-14K range which would have a nice par rating that will also provide you with that nice blue look. Keep in mind if you go with Halides, heat may become a factor. Here is a website you can check out to see some bulb comparisons and the par ratings of these different bulbs. 250Watt Bulb Comparison . It is interactive so just change the bulbs and watch the tank color change. :)


Sand depth and live rock, well, that is a toughy. Let us know your thoughts when it comes to sand as in, are you putting it there simply for looks and for a place for some of your critters? or filtration purposes? or what...It all depends on what you are after. Sand beds at different depths will require different care and will also dictate what kind of care it will require to maintain as well as which critters you can put in your tank because if you go with a deep sandbed for eg, you don't want any critters in there that will dig down into the lower anaerobic zones as it can cause some issues so let us know your thoughts. An easy one to maintain is a shallow sand bed if sand is something you want about 1-2 inches deep max. I don't use sand and keep my nitrates at zero so it isn't totally necesary, but does have it's cons. As for liverock, there was a general rule of so many lbs per gal, but that was thrown out of the window as you could have 50lbs of one type of rock and 50lbs of another type of rock and depending on how pourus one is than the other will determine which one will provide more filtration. Sounds like you don't plan on overstocking this tank so I'd toss in what you want to give you the look you are going after and see how that works. If you need a number to shoot for just for an idea maybe 150-200lbs??

Skimmers - TONS of options out there! You will have to determine if you want a skimmer to sit in your sump or externally. Let us know that, then we can know which skimmers to suggest. No sense suggesting a skimmer that can only work in-sump if you are after an external skimmer. All work the same so non is better than the other in terms of in sump or external. Just let us know which option works better for you. :)

On the canister filter, you won't really need it. You can just toss a bag of carbon in your sump seeing you only use the canister for running cabon and save yourself on a piece of equipment. Atleast that's what I do.

Lastly, on reactors, personal preference. I've never had a tank that big so couldn't say what the demand would be in terms of something like a calcium reactor. A phosban reactor might not be a bad investment. They usually run fo about $100 with pump.

Just a few personal thoughts and questions to get things going. I'm sure the others will chime in with their suggestions as well. Remember, more than one way to go about things in this hobby so weigh out all of your options and do what suits you best. Also, rest assured that we are here trying to help you out and I think I can speak for everyone when I say we all want to see one another succeed with their tanks. :)
 
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well,
-fuge, intended for export and critters
-skimmer, well it can go any where, i am building a room for all this
-lighting, well i wanted to stay away from MH lights, kind of was looking at poss. LED, I read up on the subject a little and found that MH lamps make 65-115 lumens/watt, so i figure if i get enough LEDs to make 48,750 lumens, That should be about equal. I also read that corals don't really do any better in 10000k as they do in 6500k?
-my tank is 1/2in glass, no over flow, not sure if i should have a hole cut or not?

Not sure about sand depth, don't really think it looks that good, I was told it was the natural thing and sounded good but now i might be having second thoughts. I have a fish who keeps digging craters, even after installing plastic grating 1in below surface. I don't like this fish, his days are numbered!
 
well,
-fuge, intended for export and critters
-skimmer, well it can go any where, i am building a room for all this
-lighting, well i wanted to stay away from MH lights, kind of was looking at poss. LED, I read up on the subject a little and found that MH lamps make 65-115 lumens/watt, so i figure if i get enough LEDs to make 48,750 lumens, That should be about equal. I also read that corals don't really do any better in 10000k as they do in 6500k?
-my tank is 1/2in glass, no over flow, not sure if i should have a hole cut or not?

Not sure about sand depth, don't really think it looks that good, I was told it was the natural thing and sounded good but now i might be having second thoughts. I have a fish who keeps digging craters, even after installing plastic grating 1in below surface. I don't like this fish, his days are numbered!

I could be wrong, but I actually think you will find a higher par rating in a 6500K bulb than you would a 10K, but a 6500K bulb is butt ugly :lol: Very yellow so you will definately need supplemental lighting. Led's are the new "thing" and more and more people seem to be slowly switching over to them. Just a bit pricey. I don't know much about them so hopefully someone will chime in on them for you. :)

For your skimmer, so you can get the most views and attention to your question, why not throw up a thread in the skimmer section. Mark (skimmy) would be probably one of the best at recommending a skimmer for you. He gets excited when he hears the work skimmer LOL!

On the sand again, personal preference. I put down white pvc board (similar to starboard) in my tanks and call it a day. Protects the tank from falling rocks, gives the look of sand because it is white and then I don't have to worry about all of the "cons" when it comes to sandbeds. Here is a thread on bare bottom tanks that was posted recently. I have a few pictures in there of the white bottom I was talking about. Also, you will see some of the pros and cons of going bare bottom. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f13/bare-bottom-pros-cons-59561/

As for flow, if you don't want to/can't drill because of temepered glass, then you will have to make up your flow with some powerheads. For a tank that size, I would look into Tunze streams first or maybe some vortech powerheads. There is also an option of doing an over the top closed loop which is basically what the name states...A closed loop that is done with plumbing over the top of the tank rather than drilling the tank. :)
 
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currently i use a hang on over flow syphon style, works well, not sure if i can acheive the flow with using alot of these? i don't think it's tempered, they are usually marked i think.
my big thing with MH lamps is the energy and heat, don't like the idea of a chiller
 
currently i use a hang on over flow syphon style, works well, not sure if i can acheive the flow with using alot of these? i don't think it's tempered, they are usually marked i think.
my big thing with MH lamps is the energy and heat, don't like the idea of a chiller

Hang on overflow?? If so, they won't work for a closed loop. It's a silimar concept, but done a bit differently in terms of the over the tank closed loop. On the heat from the halides, yes, that is a big concern. You can somtimes get away with proper ventilation (if using a canopy) and fans, but a chiller sometimes is the safest bet. :)
 
Here is an example of an over the top closed loop just on a smaller scale. It's what people would do on un-drilled tanks. Melevsreef.com - Closed Loop

Now you can go in any direction with this design. I actually did one of these and hid all the plumbing. I'll search for the thread for you or if I can't find it, I will post up some pictures I have saved on my home computer for yopu later, but you can do a manifold that sits on top of the tank with as many outputs as you want ect. The sky is the limit, you just have to use the general guideline you see in the link to plumb in the pumps suction as you will have to prime all the plumbing first before starting up the pump. :)
 
Krish as always has a ton of great ideas.
I'm from the other end of the sandy bottom issue, I like the sand. It allows me to keep a leopard wrasse and a sand sifting goby. True that they sometimes make a bit of a mess, but they are really fun fish to watch. I like the more natural look (to my eyes) that sand provides, but as he says, it can be a bit more work.
Yes, you can keep a rubbermaid sand box in a barebottom, but that makes a worse mess, as it gets all over the clean floor. Especially if you are pushing 5000000000x turnover like Krish :)
If you want to grow mainly sps coral and you like that "top of the reef look" then he has it exactly right.
Lights- Yep 6500ks will grow coral, but they hit the sweet spot of algae as well, better to shoot a bit higher for the display. I had 10,000k last year, and they have killer par, but the light was more on the yellow side, and my coral near the top of the tank didn't ever color as nice, I think they were getting too much light. On the up side I could keep sps much lower in the tank.
LED- Make sure you look at a tank (your size) that is running them before you buy! I don't doubt that they grow coral, but the effect in a larger tank was a bit too...er disco for my taste. Too much spotlighting and I could see the "edges" where the color changes happen. It can be reduced by adding a lot more lights, but it is very expensive. That said, I like how they look in a tank with a small footprint. Very much a personal preference issue.

-Todd
 
ok, so bare bottom means more cleaning? How often (cause that just may mean fights between the o'lady,LOL). Can i put say 1in and acheive the same with gravel siphone? I don't really like the white, i would rather use a peice of EPDM rubber (black), it's rubber so it's durable, easily to clean, lasts. What about a seperate fuge with only a DSB, nothing more. Say in a deep container with low turbulance, but high flow? How much live rock 1lb/gal. Ireally don't plan to keep to many fish if any! will there still be debris?

what if i made a fuge with only a DSB and critters(55gal), and one with only macro and critters(55gal), and sump(say 20gal)?
 
Krish as always has a ton of great ideas.
-Todd

Or Krish just talks too much :lol:




Here is that thread I spoke about. It's a very old thread with a lot of chit chat so you will just have to scan through it to the pictures. http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f12/my-diy-closed-loop-13588/ Just a different approach at doing basically the same thing as I showed you in that link I posted above. Like I said, many ways to do it. Sometimes people just go the powerhead route to save them time. :)
 
ok, so bare bottom means more cleaning?

No it should mean less. Instead of all of the waste getting lost in the sand bed which you would have to vacuum through, you can add tons of flow that lifts all of the waste that would have settled on the bottom into the water column where your skimmer can remove it, corals can use it as a food source etc. So technically a bit less cleaning if set up right.
 
No way Krish, you are an awesome resource!!
No, I would say that after you get it going, the bare bottom is less work. Much easier to spot detritus, and you can keep a lot of flow down low so the bad stuff stays in suspension.
I don't know about the material you are looking at, but be sure to check it's resistance to UV.
 
ok, for flow, i get it, i did something similar on a huge turle tank about 10 years ago, but what about flow to the sump? external over flows like i am using now?
Here is an example of an over the top closed loop just on a smaller scale. It's what people would do on un-drilled tanks. Melevsreef.com - Closed Loop

Now you can go in any direction with this design. I actually did one of these and hid all the plumbing. I'll search for the thread for you or if I can't find it, I will post up some pictures I have saved on my home computer for yopu later, but you can do a manifold that sits on top of the tank with as many outputs as you want ect. The sky is the limit, you just have to use the general guideline you see in the link to plumb in the pumps suction as you will have to prime all the plumbing first before starting up the pump. :)
 
how much flow can softies handle, i like my toad stool and mushrooms. you have me on this one, i'm like it so far just not sure what i can keep
No it should mean less. Instead of all of the waste getting lost in the sand bed which you would have to vacuum through, you can add tons of flow that lifts all of the waste that would have settled on the bottom into the water column where your skimmer can remove it, corals can use it as a food source etc. So technically a bit less cleaning if set up right.
 
ok, for flow, i get it, i did something similar on a huge turle tank about 10 years ago, but what about flow to the sump? external over flows like i am using now?

Yes..You got it man. An external overflow to the sump and just a return pump back to the tank. That's all you need to circulate water between the sump and tank. They have quite a few options out there where you wouldn't need to have more than one overflow connected to your sump to get the flow rate you are looking for. Take a look at CPR overflows for example if you aren't familiar. Some people don't like them because they need an aqualifter or powerhead to keep it's siphon, but I kinda like them. Used on on my 75gal and just kep an extra aqualiter or two on hand. :)
 
EPDM rubber is the same rubber used in rubber seals in your skimmers, filters car engines. I use it for roofing, so it is very UV resistant and we all ready know it works for marine apps, cause its all ready used for seals
No way Krish, you are an awesome resource!!
No, I would say that after you get it going, the bare bottom is less work. Much easier to spot detritus, and you can keep a lot of flow down low so the bad stuff stays in suspension.
I don't know about the material you are looking at, but be sure to check it's resistance to UV.
 
so i could send low flow to the fuge, and amp it up with aclosed loop to make up flow. that way to keep the critters in the fuge happy also
Yes..You got it man. An external overflow to the sump and just a return pump back to the tank. That's all you need to circulate water between the sump and tank. They have quite a few options out there where you wouldn't need to have more than one overflow connected to your sump to get the flow rate you are looking for. Take a look at CPR overflows for example if you aren't familiar. Some people don't like them because they need an aqualifter or powerhead to keep it's siphon, but I kinda like them. Used on on my 75gal and just kep an extra aqualiter or two on hand. :)
 
i currently have a gravity feed siphone style no power needed. works great, just one prime and keeps going, even after power outage. it's rated for 600ghp, would something like this work, i think it is eshopp's (spelling?)
 
Ahh...I am familiar with those prefilters. Great design. That will work, but on that size tank, would be kinda on the weak side. Might need something with a bit more flow. :)
 
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