Sick acro----help id

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Snappy

clever title goes here
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
328
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I have a green Slimer that is sick and I was wondering if I might have flatworms or something like that. This coral wasn't in the best flow area but then again it still had reasonable flow. It has been getting white streaks up the body that to me don't look like stn or rtn, at least not like I've seen before. Here are a few close ups of some damaged areas and this is the only coral in my tank this is happening to. These pictures don't show the streaking well but are of the really bad areas. Can some of you experts help me id the problem? I have taken this piece out of the tank until I know it's not flatworms. Thanks.


sick_slimer_2.jpg


sick_slimer.jpg
 
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look like AEFW's to me, do a TMPCC dip on it and see if they come flying off. It is hard to see em with them being clear.
 
Ughhhh Snappy! So sorry to see and hear about this!!! The TMPCC will work, but you can also try using Fluke tabs. Check out the link for a picture and more antecdote.

I think that I may be at the end of battling these suckers.

Once you treat, you will be amazed at how many die off and what a perfect camoflage they are capable of.

http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html

good luck. They'll preferentially attack Acropora Valida's, A Nana, A Secale, A Millipora and A Effloensis.
What other acropora do you have in your tank? I know that you have some killer Montipora, but you have nothing to fear with these (with respect to your AEFW infection).

Check on my thread here for periodic updates. Most "victims" previously stated that these things are impossible to kill. TMPCC wasn't known then and the Fluke tab dose wasn't worked out. I will never put another acro in my tank without a Fluke tab bath.
 
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Ughhh. I hate to tell you, but if you are not as proactive as possible you will be in trouble. You have to assume every acro has the worms and treat them out of the tank individually. Otherwise, you may have a VERY long road ahead of you. Or a tank full of Monti's. It is my theory that they don't like Torts for what ever thats worth!?!


I though that I had a lot of corals (60 ish?)

Anyway, I got a wire saw from Home Depot and used that to cut out the encrusted colonies from the rocks and used a dental tool to finish the rest. Some of the rock I just pulled out of the tank to work on, some of it I left in. The Wire saw will allow you to work in the tank.

Good luck on gathering enough stuff for an appropriate QT system. I'd help if I could :(
 
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Im not sure whats going on, but IMO, I dont think AEFW are the culprit here. I cant see any AWEFs. The tissue is sloughing off, which usually isnt associated with AEFW. And usually with AEFW the tissue has a molted appearance that I am not seeing.
 
I see no proof of AEFW, nor see any flatworms. All I see is a coral undergoing rapid necrosis. Could be burned, the vistim of chemical warfare, water quailty changes, shock, impurity, etc etc etc. Learn the cause before you attempt the cure.
 
I thought I've had enough RTN issues in the past to recognize it and this didn't seem like what I've seen before. Any RTN I've seen seems to start in one spot, usually the bottom and works its way up very fast. It was located near other non aggressive corals like stylophora so I doubt it got burned. This coral was getting white patches almost randomly and was dispersed throughout the coral even at the top and has been going on for quite awhile. (Who knows?) Everything else looks fine but under inspection with a magnifying glass I couldn't see any obvious parasites but I have no experience with AEFW so I thought I would post here to see what people thought. I ended up just throwing the infected colony out. I'll just really keep my eyes on things for the next while.
 
I respectfully disagree with the above two posters. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean that it isn't there. There is evidence of possibly 2 types of AEFW's. If there only one species exists, then the juvenile form is definitely microscopic and can only be seen with a high power magnification. To make matters worse, it may be flagellated and peripatetic!

Ninety percent of the time we can never know the cause of why a coral isn't doing well. Any experienced reefer will tell you that. There is plenty of anecdote, and the most confident are usually wrong. Alleopathy and water chemistry parameters are usually non issues especially in a successful tank such as his *check his link*. The difference with an RTN or STN event and what you see above is the distinctive patchy appearance. Any necrotic event will have the epidermal layers fold off evenly. If the event isn’t balanced, the edges near the patchy necrotic areas will not adhere flush to the coral skeleton. This isn't apparent in the above photographs.

Having personally dealt with these things on a first hand basis you can't always see them and the infected corals don't always have the classic bite marks. Furthermore, being in denial that I could possibly ever have them because "I know what to look for" in addition to inspecting all my newly acquired acros with a magnifying glass, gave me a false since of security that I thought I'd be safe. My lesson was to treat everything prior to putting it into my tank. After I treated what I thought were normal corals, I was left with a coral with much less tissue and more exposed skeletal areas. These things will rasp through the epidermal layers and directly eat the zooxanthellae taking on the same color and appearance as the mother host. The perfect camouflage!

TMPCC and other iodine based derivatives are certainly rougher on the zooxanthellae, but fluke tabs are cheap and gentle in my experience and knocks them silly. Praziquatel and Metroniazole are both antiplanerial agents, the active ingredients in Fluke tabs, while levamisole can be toxic to some acros. His problem is that if he has AEFW's on one coral, his is in impending danger. Treating the obvious suspected colony will not only secure the infection but prevent him from sitting back while he starts to lose coral after coral slowly or quickly.
 
Sorry this picture's a little out of focus but it's what I had handy. Does this look flat worn damage to you Servo? One of my A velida colonies.
velida_colony.jpg
 
Can't tell buddy, but you are best off at treating this colony. In terms of probability, I don't like your odds. If you find a bunch of worms flying off, then you will have a long road ahead of you. The tips look a bit pale but that is so non specific.

What was the last coral or corals (acro's) that you put into the tank? Check your milli's as well. If you have any that don't look happy, pull them out and look at the undersurfaces.

I was able to fit all of my acros in a 60 gallon frag tank and a 40 gallon tank. I was also lucky to have a bunch of T5 fixtures around to be able to light up the corals.
 
Hello Greg,
Sorry to hear about your coral troubles :( A quick shake of the coral using the Fluke tabs will make it instantly clear if there are flatworms or not. They come off and start swimming around the bucket. Adults can be surprisingly large (larger than the diameter of a pea). The egg masses are also pretty easy to see without magnification.

Regards,
Kevin
 
Any idea where I can buy fluke tabs? I can always google it but if somebody has a known good source I'd rather get them from there. I have ordered the tropic marin med but being in Canada I'm not sure I'll even get it and if I do it might be a while. None of the LFS here knew what I was talking about.:confused:
Servo the tips on that A velida are always white, it's actually a pretty nice colony if I do say so myself. I'll try to get a better picture.
Thanks for the feedback everybody.
 
I don't have any experience with AEFW's other than I know they are the worst! I am just finishing off treating all of my Acro's outside the tank for redbugs. All new corals will be getting dipped in TMPCC and an Interceptor bath.

Good Luck!
 
I put a coral (a nana) that had been beside the slimer into an iodine based coral dip by Seachem(all I could find locally) but all I could see flying off it was copepods & amphipods, no flat worms, at least that I could see. Wouldn't you think that flatworms would have spread to that if that was the problem? It is very healthy looking though.
On the velida picture it is the white patches below the branches I was curious about.
 
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Did you dip the Valida? I'd be interested in seeing what flys off of that. I don't think that the coral you dipped is infected. Any iodine dip should cause the worms to fly off of the coral.
 
You are now blindly treating corals for an unproven cause. This often leads to much worse problems. Patience and "know before you go" are the best course...
 
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