Sick Clowns

[mamie]

On Monday I purchased 2 tomato clowns & a sebae anemone. Yesterday It looked like one of the clowns had ick. Today when I got home from work both clowns look like their skin is peeling off.

All the other fish are fine and my water is good.

ANy ideas?

Thanks,

Linda

 

[Brenden]

Can you post a pic? Is it actually peeling or does it look "loose" or have a frosted velvet look to it?

 

[ronj]

yeah, pics could help greatly!!!!

 

[NaH2O]

Are these wild caught clowns? Do you have a quarantine available? It is possible they have Brooklynella hostilis, which is sometimes called clownfish disease. Please post any other symptoms you are observing in the clowns, to hopefully help Steve with a diagnosis. If you can also post a picture, then that would be a bonus.

 

[MikeS]

Also...what are your exact water parameters? IE temperature, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, SG, ect....How old is this tank? Can you describe the tank setup for us? How did you acclimate the fish? What are the tankmates already in the tank? Are the clowns eating?

I know it sounds like a lot of questions, but the more we know about your setup and the fish in question, the more help we can be...

MikeS

 

[mamie]

It is to late for the tomato clowns. When I arrived home from a quick trip to the store they were gone. I am so upset as I just purchased them @my lfs.

Are my other fish at risk? In a 39 gal tank I have a lwanmower blenny, yellowtail damsel and a leaf scorpion fish. All are over 4 years old and do not show any systems.

What about corals& inverts? I have a tube anomene,sebae(purchased with the clowns),mushrooms,candycane,finger leather, zoos,crabs & snails.

Thanks again,
LInda

 

[steve-s]

The two biggest possibilities are Amyloodinium ocellatum or Brooklynella hostilis (both?). Given the decription and speed in which they passed, it could be either. With this species, the more common ailment would be Brooklynella hostilis, at least let's hope. Any/all anemonefish should be treated for this parasite (Brook) prophylactically as part of the normal QT procedure.

Since the Tomato clowns did not go through a QT, the tank may be infested with a potential pathogen. If Brooklynella hostilis, you may get lucky and none of the other fish will be affected. If Amyloodinium ocellatum, they will all need to be treated with copper. Considering your fish types, that must be Cupramine but at no stronger than 0.4 ppm. You would also be wise to perform a prophylactic series of formalin dips. There is no way for you to know which without microscopic examination. The Symptoms to watch for are....
Fin clamping, rapid breathing, flashing, swimming in front of water apparatus, severe color loss, jaw agape, excess mucus from the fish, stringy slime, a gold sheen, cloudy eyes, hiding and sometimes surface gulping.

You must set up a QT ASAP and be prepared for the worst. It's impossible to say which of the two parasites killed your fish but I would lean strongly towards Brooklynella. As for your invertebrates, these are fish only paraasites so they are not in any kind of danger.

Some reading for you...
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

Cheers
Steve

 

[Sizemore]

I had a pair of A. occellaris that did what sounds like the same thing... Turns out my tank was hyperalkaline. What is your dkH? How often do you do water changes? is Ph normal? I originally though Brook or some other disease, but the answer was much more simple.

 

[steve-s]

I had a pair of A. occellaris that did what sounds like the same thing... Turns out my tank was hyperalkaline. What is your dkH? How often do you do water changes? is Ph normal? I originally though Brook or some other disease, but the answer was much more simple.

If this where so, all the fish would be affected not just the Tomato clowns. Definately something to check but I serioulsy doubt the cause.

Cheers
Steve

 

[mamie]

I change 5 gallons of water every 2-3 weeks. All other fish seem to be good. I just checked my ph and it is damgerously high at 8.8. After talking to a close friend he thinks it was a ph burn.

My ph is always a little high and cannot figure out why. Since I use the same of everything in my nano & the ph is 8.3 I am at of loss for the reason.

I am going to do a water change to help bring it down and then maybe a stablizer if it creeps up again.

Nitrate is 1.0
Nitrite is 0
amonia is 0
alk. is high

 

[Sizemore]

My other fish were just fine, too. Maybe various clowntypes are more susceptable to pH & dkH variances. I would stabilize the water conditions quickly but gradually (8.8 is VERY dangerous) and keep a good eye on everything else for pH/dkH stress. If any show signs of illness, QT hem, but I would hesitate on using copper. Copper will fix those diseases, but it will taint the tank for your inverts. I would pick up the water changes as well. That will help your pH/dkH issues. I began doing 20% every week and it really made everything happier.

 

[MikeS]

I've seen my reef at 8.6 before with no adverse effects on the corals or fish....not that it isn't bad, but I agree with Steve, I would imagine if your pH was the main cause, you would have seen problems with most of the inhabitants, not just the new ones. Also, how did you get the 8.8 pH number? What kind of test did you use? Many are notoriously inaccurate, I would definately try to verify that number before you try to correct it, make sure you have a problem there first, so you are not trying to correct one that may not even exist...

You said your alkalinity is "high"...do you have a test kit that only measures it in "low-medium-high"? If so, I'd highly recommend getting one that measures actual levels, such as dKH, mg/L, ppm...ect....this will be much more handy. Also, having a "high" alkalinity doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a high pH. They are two different measurements. The most simple way to put it as it pertains to marine water chemistry is that pH is the measurement to the degree to which the water is either acid or basic...alkalinity is a two-fold measurement...#1, the amount of carbonate (in most test kit cases) alkalinity in the water , and #2, its a measurement of the degree to which the water will resist a negative shift in pH when an acid is added. A high alkalinity will not always mean a high pH, it simply means the solution will more easily maintain its pH and resist a negative shift.

The symptoms posted were pretty vauge...you said the fish "looked like it had ich"....what does that mean? Did you notice spots on the body? Peeling skin itself is a symptom of many different diseases...it may be hard to nail it down...

MikeS

 

[mamie]

Mike,

First I wanted to say thanks.

I tested with quick dip strips first . Ph was 8.8 and alk was at 300ppm which said ideal area. Then I tested with red sea (chemicals). The ph was 8.8 and the alk said high.

I noticed on Thursday a little white spot on the body of one clown. The next day when I got home from work the skin was peeling right off the fish,death happend soon after on both clowns. I didn't even have time for a pic,it was quick.
As I stated before all other fish & clorals look fine with no symptons. I tested both of my tanks and the nano is all good.

Could it be the lfs just received the fish and they were all ready stressed from their first trip?

Linda

 

[steve-s]

The chemistry reading is more coincidence than cause, I would not trust it. For just the Tomato clowns to be affected an no other is wishful thinking. I would really suggest better test kits as well. Strips are pretty much the most inaccurate going. The Red Sea is usually only accurate with Ca not alk. 300 ppm alkalinity is double what the tank should be. Unless you dose with a buffer type additive/kalk, there's no way for it to climb like that independantly. Shoot for a range of 125-160ish ppm with 150 being ideal.

I'm fairly certain your fish where affected by something foreign, it's just a matter of what and will the others become affected. So far as I said given the species, Brook would be at the top of the list. If so, you could easily get off lucky and no other fish will be affected.

Cheers
Steve

 

[mamie]

Ok Steve. Thanks for all your help.

What test kit would you suggest I get for ph and alk.?

Linda

 

[diablo]

if any test kits use salifert I have heard nothing but good things about them. you might want to try pinpoint moniters. ( more easy to use)

 

[steve-s]

There are several good titration branded kits available. Salifert, Seachem, La Motte and Hach. Personally I like the Salifert for ease of use, accuracy and cost. Unless you really need a pinpoint, I wouldn't bother. You'll spend a fair amount of time recalibrating and replacing the tips.

Cheers
Steve