Spots on my fish

[mwebber28]

I have recently had the pleasure of watching one of my clowns and my tang develop some white spots on their bodies and fins.

I first assumed Ich and treated their food with garlic dip for 4 days but the spots remained on the clown and the tang developed a buck tooth apperance.

My next assumption was some type of fungus for which I treated with 7 days of melafix and 3 days of pima fix. This helped a little bit but in reality all I did was pee off my nem and corals.

So finaly I'm trying marine-max over the last 3 days which has helped a bit but is not working as fast as I would like.


I'm starting to think it might be velvet, lymphocystis or brooklynella although it does not have a slime apperance.

My plan was to continue the marine-max and to start treating their food with metronidazole. However, I'm not sure this is reef or invert safe.

Any advice or help with the ID would be appreciated.

I have a couple of pics attached for you to look at, they are of the clown, I gave up trying to get a pic of the tang after an hour of frustration.


Thanks.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

If the tangs also got it in the beginning, most likely Marine Ich. Additionally, if it was velvet, the fish would be dying off fast. Tell us about when it started, and was it after addition of new fish?

I would prefer pictures of the Tang, as what is visable in the clown pics could be secondary infection. If it is Ich, there are no simple bottle not food treatments. It will require Hypo-salinity or proper copper based treatment. Both of these done in a hospital tank.

 

[user 26995]

You should check out this info http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/curing-fish-marine-ich-50933/
along with other info in the Marine Fish Discussion with Lee Birch forum

We'll see about moving this thread to that forum and see if Lee can help some too.

 

[user 26995]

It looks like marine velvet to me.
Check out this treatment
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/copper-treatment-use-problems-27005/

 

[NC2WA]

Does this have a sheen to it? If so, I am with IPisces and believe it is Marine Velvet (MV). Follow the link IPisces sent to you. Also if it is MV you need to act quickly, as MV spreads quickly and can decimate a tank quickly (unfortunately I was a victim of MV 10yrs ago--hard lesson to learn).

 

[Krish]

Moved to Lee's forum. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully with the help of the members here and Lee, you can get things under control. Good luck with it!!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Does this have a sheen to it? If so, I am with IPisces and believe it is Marine Velvet (MV). Follow the link IPisces sent to you. Also if it is MV you need to act quickly, as MV spreads quickly and can decimate a tank quickly (unfortunately I was a victim of MV 10yrs ago--hard lesson to learn).

No mention of breathing difficulties.
He has been "treating" the disease for most of a month. I doubt they would have survived that long against Velvet.

 

[mwebber28]

If the tangs also got it in the beginning, most likely Marine Ich. Additionally, if it was velvet, the fish would be dying off fast. Tell us about when it started, and was it after addition of new fish?

I first noticed it on a jaw fish that was consumed by my nem about 2 weeks ago. I noticed it on his fins and he developed a cloudy eye apperance a few days later. Thats when I started the garlic dip on their food. The tang and him were buddies or at least the tang was always by his burrow picking at the rocks. I dont know if thats how he got it or not.

I added a couple of firefish, right before the problem started, but they have no signs of the problem.

The spost dont really have a sheen to them. They are more like cotton spots and after reading the Ich link am inclined to go with that diagnosis.

I just took another picture of the clown with the purple light off, I tried to get a picture of the tang but all I end up with is a blurry mess. I even tried feeding them but that didnt improve the quality.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[mwebber28]

I forgot to add that my heater went out just before this happened, the temp went from 77 down to 72. It has since been replaced and is currently at 77. Dont know if that helps or not.

 

[NC2WA]

Mike,

Good point. MV usually hits and kills quickly within 3-5 days..

Mwebber, So Marine Ich (MI) is most likely the culprit. I would get a QT tank up and running and follow Lee's sticky. To rid the MI in your main tank you most likely need to go fishless for 6-8 wks; once you remove the host (ie, fish) from MI, it will die..this will ensure the fish that are in the QT will not get MI again from the main tank..yeah, I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but it is the only way I know to ensure you will not repeat the cycle again and again.

 

[mwebber28]

I'm nearly certain its MI but part of me still thinks its a fungal infection. I have not read anythng on MI that discusses the mouth condition on the tang. Does any one know if MI would cause the tang to have the mouth issue where he cant seem to close his mouth.

I'm still trying to get a picture or at least convert the movie I took to photo format.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

When a fish has an irritating parasite for an extended period of time, they typically get secondary infections. That would most likely be the fuzzy appearance to the mucous membrane. This can happen from rubbing against sand and coral in the attempt to rid itself of the source of irritation. As they "flash", they can also injure themselves. I would start hypo-salinity process ASAP unless you have the time, patience, test kits, and skill to use copper.

 

[leebca]

Garlic is not a treatment for Marine Ich. Treat this fish in a separate tank with Cupramine. It's too late to treat with a hyposalinity treatment. Follow the guildelines in this post and all of the linked posts within this post: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/curing-fish-marine-ich-50933/

During this treatment, all add to the water Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. The formula for freshwater fishes is okay to use too. Just follow package instructions.

All the above should be done in a properly setup hospital/quarantine tank: A Quarantine Procedure

Good luck!

 

[NC2WA]

Lee,

I was under the impression you couldn't mix cupramine and maracyn treatments together. Am I wrong ?

 

[user 26995]

Actually, yes, you can do a maracyn treatment while doing a cupramine treatment.

I think it is mentioned in the sticky about MI and copper treatment.

 

[NC2WA]

Lorrie,

I re-read the copper and its use treatment sticky and found the following:

AFTER TREATMENT

After the medication is used, you must hold the fish in quarantine for another 4 weeks minimum to verify that the fish is free of Marine Ich and Marine Velvet, and that your treatment was successful. Don't shorten or skip this important step. What this means is that AFTER the treatment is finished AND the copper is removed, you still hold the fish in quarantine for 4 more weeks to verify the treatment was a success. Watch fish closely; look closely for any signs of the disease either by sight or fish behavior (flashing, irritation, etc.). Watch for secondary infections (bacterial) and be prepared to treat with an antibiotic (Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish should be purchased when first beginning the copper treatment). If the bacterial treatment must follow the copper treatment, then AFTER the last treatment (bacterial/antibiotic) hold the fish 4 more weeks to verify that the bacterial infection was cleared up.


DANGER !!! Treating with copper cannot be done with many other treatments and medications.

Copper should not be used with any kind of sulfa-based antibiotic.
Never perform a copper treatment in a hyposaline solution. The copper becomes lethal to marine fishes if and when the pH goes down in a hyposaline treatment. A drop in pH in a hyposaline treatment is almost a guarantee since the buffering ability of the water is poor in such a low salt concentration.
Hyposalinity only cures one parasite -- Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). Copper kills Marine Ich and Marine Velvet also, so there is no purpose in doing both the copper AND a hyposalinity treatment at the same time (see above red). See: A Fish Hyposalinity Treatment

I do not see it mentioned where you can combine the two medications, only to use Maracyn to treat a secondary infection after the copper treatment is complete. This is how I read these paragraphs; maybe I am wrong, but I think this is an important concept that any reefer especially novice reefers should know, which is why I am bringing it up. (the last thing we want is a deadly cocktail of mixing two medications together)

Hopefully Lee replies soon.

 

[user 26995]

Wow, My Bad!!! I guess I read it wrong. That is what I have done though was a maracyn treatement after cupramine treatment. I dont believe I removed the cupramine first though. All fish are still alive and doing great. Maybe I was lucky...I dont know.

 

[NC2WA]

Lorrie,

no worries, I just want to make sure we are getting the correct message to everyone...I normally remove my copper first, before I would treat with maracyn II.

glad to hear your situation turned out OK.

 

[leebca]

I think you already got your answer NC2WA. Cupramine and Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes can be administered simultaneously. I recommend both so often that several years ago the makers of Maracyn Two verified that it was compatible with Cupramine treatments. It's important, since Marine Ich and Marine Velvet often cause a secondary bacterial infection and when indicated, the two should be used together.

 

[NC2WA]

Lee,

thanks for the confirmation.

Kirk