glacierdiver
New member
Without metal halide lighting, just T5HO lighting at about 8 watts/gallon what sps coral will do well and which ones should a person stay away from?
sps lighting
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I would ignore the 'watts per gallon' concept. Question can best be answered by giving tank dimensions and more specific livestock you are thinking of.
As Chicas said, Watts/Gallon is an arcane "rule of thumb" that is worthless.
The depth of your tank, and how deep in your tank you want to be able to place SPS corals, will determine your lighting needs. An adequate number of T5HO bulbs, WITH individual, contoured reflectors, will allow you to grow anything you want, down to about 22" of depth. For instance, I had a 75 gallon, predominately SPS, with a 6 bulb Tek5 T5HO fixture. I had no problems growing any SPS that I put in the tank. I even had SPS near the bottom.
The depth of your tank, and how deep in your tank you want to be able to place SPS corals, will determine your lighting needs. An adequate number of T5HO bulbs, WITH individual, contoured reflectors, will allow you to grow anything you want, down to about 22" of depth. For instance, I had a 75 gallon, predominately SPS, with a 6 bulb Tek5 T5HO fixture. I had no problems growing any SPS that I put in the tank. I even had SPS near the bottom.
TJL
copod
Much agreed you don't need to have MH to keep corals or any other reef animals. I have 4 96w 36" T12 VHO 'AquaBrite' + 1 30w std and tipically need to acclimate most corals I get from MH sources to my higher intensity by shielding/shading for several days. I'm upgrading 2 at a time to 48" 110w and should be able to give even the most demanding sun worshipers a decent tan!
Todd
Todd
Knowledgeseeker
Well-known member
You don't need halides but it sure does make a difference. I went from 4 96 watt pcs to 2 250 DE on a 72 bowfront and the corals and clams that I could have thrive and not just survive is totally different. Its about horse power, and a 96 or 110 watt can not have the same impact as a 250 or 400 halide. The color level, intensity, growth rates and patterns are not even on the same planet. Pc's were fine for digis, and caps, that were green and orange. Anything bright blue, bright green, bright purple or pink will not truly thrive.
You really need to decide on what level and types of sps you want. The proof is in the pictures. Check out tank of the month pics from all over the world and you will figure it out. If you are really looking to see whats best and what you like take a look at peoples tanks and what they have. Compare all the average tanks on the web or in your area and then the high level quality tanks and show me how many of them do not use halides.
There is no way people only running vho's, pc's, and t5's compared to halides have the same quality of corals and color levels. There is always a difference between average, good and elite level. Advertisers will make you think a Kia is comparable to an Audi or BMW, but take a drive and see what you find.
You really need to decide on what level and types of sps you want. The proof is in the pictures. Check out tank of the month pics from all over the world and you will figure it out. If you are really looking to see whats best and what you like take a look at peoples tanks and what they have. Compare all the average tanks on the web or in your area and then the high level quality tanks and show me how many of them do not use halides.
There is no way people only running vho's, pc's, and t5's compared to halides have the same quality of corals and color levels. There is always a difference between average, good and elite level. Advertisers will make you think a Kia is comparable to an Audi or BMW, but take a drive and see what you find.
Power compacts? Metal halides? That is a no brainer but t-5's are the sH!t i grew all sps even oregon tort with them in a tank 19" deep.
Knowledgeseeker
Well-known member
In very shallow tanks I imagine people can get away with VHO's or T5's but what do the intensity levels of the colors end up like as well as the size of the colonies.
I think a huge problem in this hobby is that someone goes into a lfs or sees a high end tank at someones house and naturally wants to recreate what they see. That is how we all got into the hobby. But often times they want to try and recreate what they see on a bare bones budget and with low end equipment in a short time period, and they find they cannot replicate what they saw. The corals lose their color, or end up dying because of bad advice, bad equipment and lack of patients.
Again if you could truly support the best growth and color for sps with VHO's and T5's only, nobody would have halides on their tanks so there would be no support for them in the market place. But what do you see on nice mature sps tanks where there are colonies and not just tiny brown frags, halides.
Do not go cheap on your lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think a huge problem in this hobby is that someone goes into a lfs or sees a high end tank at someones house and naturally wants to recreate what they see. That is how we all got into the hobby. But often times they want to try and recreate what they see on a bare bones budget and with low end equipment in a short time period, and they find they cannot replicate what they saw. The corals lose their color, or end up dying because of bad advice, bad equipment and lack of patients.
Again if you could truly support the best growth and color for sps with VHO's and T5's only, nobody would have halides on their tanks so there would be no support for them in the market place. But what do you see on nice mature sps tanks where there are colonies and not just tiny brown frags, halides.
Do not go cheap on your lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One of the reasons that a lot of people have MH lighting, instead of T5HO is because T5HO is fairly newer technology. If you've been a member of many reef forums for long, you've noticed a HUGE move from MH to T5HO, by MANY SPS keepers. Even in deeper tanks, T5HO, with adequate reflectors, will keep any thing happy, not just surviving, but thriving.
sandswhitson
Well-known member
I have used both and I have gone BACK TO MH. I think that T5's are OK in a shallower tank but you can't get the depth penetration with them. I also do not care for the look of T5's they look too much like freswater tanks to me with T5's, I have to have the shimmer. I also don't remember any TOTM's with only T5's there may have been some but I know the majority is MH. I wish that the T5's could compete because of the heat and energy savings but I don't feel that they do.
The "Shimmer effect" is very nice, and very hard to get with anything other than MH. The shimmer is also thought to intensify available lighting, for a split second, and magnify the light penetration for the corals. Shimmer is one great benefit of MH lighting.
Scott, if you're talking MOTM (Member of the Month), since RF doesn't have TOTM, I was MOTM a few years back, with T5 only....lol.
Scott, if you're talking MOTM (Member of the Month), since RF doesn't have TOTM, I was MOTM a few years back, with T5 only....lol.
sandswhitson
Well-known member
No I was talking about TOTM on another forum.
But back on topic. I think that you could keep any Acro as long as you keep it less than 20" from the lights. Any deeper than that and they probably won't do as well as with MH.
But back on topic. I think that you could keep any Acro as long as you keep it less than 20" from the lights. Any deeper than that and they probably won't do as well as with MH.
TJL
copod
I think the "Shimmer Effect" is a very valid opinion but you can now achieve that adding some of the higher powered LED's 3w & 5w that are available. One of the benefits of a deeper tank is to have various niches for different species which often includes some incredibly colorful animals that prefer more subtle lighting. If you have or can look at Michael Palettas book 'Ultimate Marine Aquariums' the very first profile "Bulletproof Reef" by Sally Jo Headlee is a VHO only tank that is more spectacular than most any MH I've ever seen in 20+ years. Also since you've had both don't you think that a 6-8" tall canopy is so much more asthetic than a 12- 18" tall MH canopy or pendants.
Todd
Todd
mcoomer
Who's your daddy?!?
I think that the shimmer effect of high intensity lighting is absolutely necessary if you want a natural looking reef tank. Having metal halide lighting isn't enough to ensure that you get it though. You also need to have some disturbance at the surface to create just enough ripples to get the effect. Frankly, I don't know that you can't get that with T5's but I'm certain that you can with MH. Another thing to consider is that a lot of shops have a limited selection of T5 hardware on hand but will usually have several ballast, reflector, and bulb combination to choose from. It's nice to know that parts are readily available.
Back on subject though, as someone else asked, what are your tanks dimensions? Specifically, how deep is it?
Mike
Back on subject though, as someone else asked, what are your tanks dimensions? Specifically, how deep is it?
Mike
Knowledgeseeker
Well-known member
The bulletproof tank is definately beautiful. If you do look at the tank it is mostly softies and lps. Not a tank full of high end brightly colored sps colonies. Many people who run MH also run other bulbs to accent the color spectrum such as VHO and PC's. Many are now switching over to t5 for this as well.
The question is which sps under t5? I belive you would have success depending on the distance from the bulb with: Green milli, pocilipora, orange cap, purple rim cap, hydnaphora and of course your common green, and orange digi, and green bali slimer
Again if they are to low the colors will be darker which some prefer or turn brown which no one prefers.
Another problem with not using MH for sps is you have to move the coral so high up the rock work that you end up with very little room for growth. Who really only wants a coral the size of your little finger. By using MH as your primary lighting you can keep the rock work to half way then let the coral grow up and into a much larger full colony. Boy what a difference a couple of inches makes. Golf ball sized colonies or cantalope sized colonies.
There is no right or wrong, only preference for what you want your tank to look like. The truth though is that you are very limited to sps choice if you are not using halides....
The question is which sps under t5? I belive you would have success depending on the distance from the bulb with: Green milli, pocilipora, orange cap, purple rim cap, hydnaphora and of course your common green, and orange digi, and green bali slimer
Again if they are to low the colors will be darker which some prefer or turn brown which no one prefers.
Another problem with not using MH for sps is you have to move the coral so high up the rock work that you end up with very little room for growth. Who really only wants a coral the size of your little finger. By using MH as your primary lighting you can keep the rock work to half way then let the coral grow up and into a much larger full colony. Boy what a difference a couple of inches makes. Golf ball sized colonies or cantalope sized colonies.
There is no right or wrong, only preference for what you want your tank to look like. The truth though is that you are very limited to sps choice if you are not using halides....
To answer, "Which SPS with T5HO....."
For 3 years, I ran a 75, predominately SPS tank, with a 6 bulb Tek5 T5HO fixture. I grew any SPS I wanted to. I had many Acropora colonies growing, 3/4 of the way down the tank. I even had Acropora frags that fell from on high, and were sitting on the sand bed. I was too lazy to move them. They grew well and held their great color.
IMHO, you can grow just about any SPS that you want, down to about 24" below the surface, with an adequate amount of T5HO bulbs, with individual or ICR reflectors.
Fast forward 3 years...
That same fixture is being used above my 200 DD tank. Up until my tank crashed, from a Co2 malfunction, SPS were growing just great. I had a couple SPS frags near the bottom of the 27" deep tank and they were growing fine and holding color very well. I still plan to add a 4 bulb fixture to this tank, to give me more coverage, front to back.
For 3 years, I ran a 75, predominately SPS tank, with a 6 bulb Tek5 T5HO fixture. I grew any SPS I wanted to. I had many Acropora colonies growing, 3/4 of the way down the tank. I even had Acropora frags that fell from on high, and were sitting on the sand bed. I was too lazy to move them. They grew well and held their great color.
IMHO, you can grow just about any SPS that you want, down to about 24" below the surface, with an adequate amount of T5HO bulbs, with individual or ICR reflectors.
Fast forward 3 years...
That same fixture is being used above my 200 DD tank. Up until my tank crashed, from a Co2 malfunction, SPS were growing just great. I had a couple SPS frags near the bottom of the 27" deep tank and they were growing fine and holding color very well. I still plan to add a 4 bulb fixture to this tank, to give me more coverage, front to back.
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ciao
Reef Newbie (SOS PLEASE!)
Would you say that you end up paying more in terms of cost for a T5 setup than a MH in the long run?? It seems like for a large tank, you need a lot more T5 bulbs than you would for a comparable MH setup. You multiply that out each time it comes time to change the bulb and it seems pretty spendy. But correct me if I'm wrong.
TJL
copod
The cost ratio seems to be 3 or 4 to 1 using quality lamps of either and of course 1 to 1 for the actinic supplements and also being able to use a standard or low profile canopy. Then imput electricity and heat. But if you want to have High Light requirement animals on the bottom of a 36" tank MH would be best.
Todd
Todd
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apollothesun
Well-known member
this sounds like a battle of the light swords. can you guys post some pics of your halide tank and those with t5 tank.
i too like the halide look
View attachment 38037
i too like the halide look
View attachment 38037
TJL
copod
Add-on to above pics
The small & tiny frags of sps all came from MH lit tanks and have kept color and are all growing even the tiny blue and green Tyree pcs. The Seriatopora (birdsnest), M setosa, Pocillopora & Hydnophora have significant growth. The Monti digitata, caps and encrusting all were shaded to acclimate to higher light intensity as I have had to do for zoas also at bottom of tank.
Todd
The small & tiny frags of sps all came from MH lit tanks and have kept color and are all growing even the tiny blue and green Tyree pcs. The Seriatopora (birdsnest), M setosa, Pocillopora & Hydnophora have significant growth. The Monti digitata, caps and encrusting all were shaded to acclimate to higher light intensity as I have had to do for zoas also at bottom of tank.
Todd
Quality T5HO bulbs run about $20.00-$25.00 each. (48", 54 watts)
Quality MH bulbs will run about $80.00-$100.00 each. (250 watt DE)
Let's compare a 6 bulb T5 fixture to a 2X250 MH fixture.
T5
6X25=150.00 every 12-18 months.
Total wattage 324 watts.
MH
2X100.00=200.00 every 12-18 months.
Total wattage 500 watts.
Oh, I forgot about any supplemental bulbs, needed for actinics on the 2X250 MH fixture, so that'd be an added cost of running the MH fixture.
