starting a new reef tank, new to the hobby

[mhgelb]

I would like to setup a ~50 gal reef tank with a few fish and soft corals. I am a newbie. Here is my initial plan based on my reading so far. Please comment on whether it sounds like a good starting point.

1. 10 gal refugium with Chaeto
2. bare bottom in main tank, deep sand bed (4 inches) in refugium only.
3. protein skimmer in sump
4. powerheads in main tank to avoid dead spots
5. T5 full spectrum and actinic bulbs, no metal halides.
6. lots of live rock in main tank, none in sump.
7. keep some live rock in covered trash can with heater and powerhead so I can switch this with algae covered liver rock in main tank.
8. temp probe and pH meter to monitor temp and pH in real time.
9. refractometer to measure salinity rather than a real time salinity probe.
10. use calcium and alkalinity 2 part solution to maintain alkalinity at about 8-10.
11. trash can of fresh water for tank top off using float value controller.

Immediate questions.
1. what is a good source of live sand? I heard the bags you buy online is not a good product.
2. how often do I do a water change and what % of total water (maintank plus refugium/sump) do I change?

Thanks for your comments!

 

[NanaReefer]

Wouldn't go DSB in fuge unless your going to have critters in there to stir it up. Plus your left with less water volume. Personally I'd go with a 20g for sump/fuge. 10 is pretty small for both.
You can seed any new sand with a cup of sand from anyone's established system. Saves $$$
Curious as to why your going BB? Lights sound good. Suggest ATI's
Unless your keeping LPS/SPS there won't be much need for 2 part dosing. Just do bi-weekly 20% water changes and you'll replenish any losses.

As for cooking your rock. Throw a bag of carbon in the mix to keep the smell down. Add good flow, let it go for about 2 weeks. Give the rocks a shake every now and then to allow sediment to fall to the bottom. This is how I did mine

 

[mhgelb]

Thanks. Lots of folks are saying no DSB. Here is the thing. I have a ton of live rock since I pulled it out of my 120 gal DT. Now I want to go to a smaller tank cause I have no plumbing in my office and the water changes were killing me. How about this? I put 1/3 of my LR in my DT, 1/3 in my sump ( or refugium) and 1/3 in a covered trash can with heater and powerhead (in the dark). If I get alage on my DT LR, I move it to the trash can, the LR in the trash can goes to the sump and the LR in the sump goes to the DT. In this way I have max amt of LR in my tank (DT and sump) and when the algae dies off for the LR in the dark in the trash can I am not releasing nutrients into the tank water. Also if I rotate the LR in this way say every few months I am not leaving the LR in the trash can for more than 2-3 months. The LR in the trash can eats the dying alage but after say 5-6 months maybe there is nothing left for the LR to eat so it is maybe better to rotate it out of the trash can every 2-3 months. I am not going to have a lot of livestock in my DT so moving the LR may not be a big issue.

You asked about BB. In my 100 gal I had a thin layer of aragonite, it grew algae like crazy and it had a lot of detritus in it when I gravel vac. it during water changes. I was thinking to put the glass DT onto a styrofoam base pad that has been painted black (outside of the tank of course).

How often do you change water and how much?

 

[pandora32]

If you keep moving your live rock around, whatever fish/livestock you do have is going to be stressed. Remember, stability is key. If you do get algae, use a cleanup crew. Noticed you didnt mention one. Also, blow the rocks off with a turkey baster once a week. Did wonders to get rid of the hair algae issue i was having! Now i do it religiously. Water changes, 20% bi-weekly. Reason why, small tank gets polluted MUCH faster. I wouldnt dose any alk/cal.

 

[NanaReefer]

I say no to rotating your rock. You'll be killing off the beneficial bacteria I would think. I also believe you'll start mini cycles by doing it.
If its algae you fear then start right. Good lights, low nutrients, good flow and a good clean up crew. Feed lightly and regular water changes to remove excess nutrients.
However if your rock is already infested with algae and you've tried everything possible to starve it out then maybe more drastic measures are called for. Like new rock or killing your old rock and starting over with it.
This way there'll be no need to rotate your rock

 

[mhgelb]

Thanks folks. all good suggestions. I am a chem prof at UW in seattle and I like to think about the logic of all of this through chemistry. Here is the deal as far as I understand it. If you want to have livestock in the tank that needs dissolved calcium (Ca2+) in the water to make its skeletal structures then one has to keep adding calcium to the tank. Here is the deal, you cannot keep adding aragonite (CaCO3) since it is pretty much insoluble in salt water at neutral pH so you guys use a calcium reaction sometimes. This is a container of aragonite through which you bubble CO2 gas, the net reaction is CaCO3 + H2O + CO2 gives Ca2+ + 2 HCO3- (remember your freshman chem, this reaction is charge and mass balanced). Also while CaCO3 is essentially insoluble in water, bicarbonate (HCO3-) does not form an insoluble salt with Ca2+. Your corals are also using carbonate in addition to calcium, in fact 1 carbonate per calcium to be exact (equivalent to 1 Ca2+ and 2 HCO3-).

Seawater in the ocean and in a good reef tank is SUPERSATURATED in CaCO3, this means the concentration of Ca2+ and CO3-- dissolved in the water is actually higher than it is suppose to be based on the low solubility of aragonite. So you are constantly precipitating aragonite and you are constant using Ca2+ + CO3-- by your corals. So you have to keep adding these to maintain dissolved Ca2+ at the proper level and dissolved CO3-- (which exists also in the form of HCO3- at the pH of seawater) (aka alkalinity) with your calcium reactor. Why some people use a calcium reaction and a kahlwasser device is beyond me. It seems to me that a calcium reaction would be sufficient, it is replacing soluble calcium and carbonate.

OK back to my case. I dont want hard corals for now so I dont have to worry about keeping soluble Ca2+ high. I can forget about the 2 part supplement solutions, one of which is some sort of soluble calcium salt like CaCl2 and the other is some sort of soluble alkalinity like Na2CO3. I can maintain my low, but essential, calciium levels by regular water changes and I don't really care about how much alkalnity I have since I don't really need that much buffering capacity to keep the pH constant since I am not consuming lots of Ca2+ + CO3-- by corals. As long as my pH is stable I don't need more buffering capacity than that.

Does this make sense?

 

[pandora32]

Im no chem prof. for sure!...hahaha, so no. And yes. You can keep your ca, alk, and ph stable so long as you do the water changes. If your just keeping soft corals and fish and a few snails, remember, snails as well as corali.e algae use the ca in the water, then water changes should be fine. The ph in your tank may necome an issue since your talking about not using any sand. Aragonite sand dissolves slowly in the water, releasing ca, alk, and mag as well as other elements, helping to buffer the system naturally. In my tank i have a 2" sandbed in the display and also have a 4" dsb in the sump. I fully believe in a dsb, for the sump. I wouldnt want it in my display. Im not trying to make anybody mad, im no scientist or anything, just a shipyard worker, but if you do run a dsb, under no circumstances should it be stirred by you or a sand sifting anything. Set it up and leave it alone. If you do stir it up, there is alot of stuff burried in the sand that could spell disaster. Just my expieriances and 2¢.

 

[pandora32]

I would suggest reading through some of the posts in the forums. Theres a "reef chemistry with boomer" forum here that would help you out i think. Lots of big words....hahaha, just kidding.

 

[kpiotrowski]

as far a temp probe and ph monitor the best purchase I ever made was the apex controller. if you can, fork out the money now before you nickle and dime yourself on several other monitors,controllers and timmers.