STN on my SPS

[jezzeaepi]

I have been having trouble with STN recently on a lot of my SPS corals. I have about 30 or so SPS and 8 or 9 of them have been STN'ing from the base up. I am at a loss at to why, hopefully someone can give me some pointers.


my tank:

Alk:8-8.3dkh(confirmed with elos and salifert kits)
calc: 410-420
Mag:1275-1300
PH:8-8.15
Temp:79-81
nitrates:0
phosphates:.01
Salifert and elos test kits were used.

I recently moved tanks twice. First from my old 38 to Ben and Duanes tanks for holding, then about 3 or 4 weeks later back to my newly set up 127g. This new 127G was set up 3 or 4 weeks ago using LR from my previous 38G.
For flow I have 2 tunze 6101's runnign at about 40% power untill I put more rocks in there, otherwise its a sandstorm. For lighting I am using 2 x 250W 10k reeflux moguls on a hqi ballast in L3's, running the light for 7 hours a day right now.
For fish I have a helfrichi firefish and a golden foxface.
I recently put a little carbon in the sump.
Of the corals that are STNing, some are continuing to grow as normal, despite loosing flesh at the base. There are SPS from every type represented in the STN population including stag, monti, mili, and table.


Thats about everything I can think of that could be pertinent. I just can't figure out a cause or even a pattern among the infected, other then they are SPS and not LPS. Any advice?

Peace,
Jesse

 

[mmkeeper]

It might help if you could include some pictures.

 

[DonW]

It sounds like your doing everthing right. I think the time frame is to short to come to any real conclusion, to many guesses. You may have to frag the corals or cover the effected areas with supeglue. Give Kevin a shout and check his opinion.

Don

 

[class clown]

sorry you're still having trouble Jesse they are all such beautiful specimins too.

calcium may be a little low, but that wouldn't be the cause of STN.

How's your salinity?
Ammonia? Nitrates? nitrites? did you reuse any water from your old tank to help the cycle faster? nahh.. that's probably not it.. your fish is doing fine ehh?

I feel for you bro.. let me know if you need me to hold them again till you get things under control.

 

[Jan]

My theory is that it's from moving the corals to tanks that have had different parameters in a relatively short period of time. Alkalinity variations in particular have caused me problems (of the STN variety)

Sorry that you're having to go through this. FWIW, my own corals did stop the STN after 2-3 weeks...I lost some that were STNing, but some recovered.

 

[Jan]

What kind of salt do you use? Is it a new batch by any chance? Have you tested the parameters on a freshly made batch of SW?

Edit...I guess you said already about your parameters being fine so testing the new SW is pretty pointless. Just trying to think of any possible changes beyond the change of just moving the corals to 3 tanks.

 

[jezzeaepi]

The tank ran for about two weeks with some "live sand" before I added the rocks. The corals came 2 days after the rocks went in. I used as much water as I could from Duane and Bens tanks when I did the transfer.

guess Ill just keep an eye on them and frag em if they regress too much. This ruins my flawless record of a year in a half in reefing, Im not too happy =\ Live and learn I guess. Ill just try to keep the tank as stable as possible.

 

[kevinpo]

STN can be one of the most challenging to stop and IME there is not a reliable “one fix” or cause. Hi DOC’s, low flow, high temperature, high alkalinity, low alkalinity, low light, and others, I can’t remember off hand, can all cause STN either by themselves or in combination.

The large change in water chemistry may be the culprit (or maybe not) but changing large volumes of water can be a problem for some sensitive Acropora corals. Other Acropora types are not affected.

I would frag just above the living tissue if the recession continues. Another option is to cover the tissue recession line with super glue as Don has suggested.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[barrierreefcf]

Repeat Kevin's post. One other question...did you use any RowaPhos or other similar phosphate removing product? Under certain circumstances its been reported to cause STN. I'd guess it was the move and changes in water chemistry/tanks but STN can be tough.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Haven't messed with any phosphate remover, only the carbon, which was post STN.

I did a round of glueing today on all effected coral. What would you say the general effectivness is of the glueing method? It seemed to work temporarily last time, but then a week later I started to notice more STN.

I am thinking about increasing my carbon usage if it continues, to pull out any outside pollutants that might have somehow made it in the tank. Or is that a bad idea, and should I just leave them be and let nature take its course?

PEace

 

[kevinpo]

What would you say the general effectivness is of the glueing method?

Most of the time it is very effective. I have never seen a negative reaction to using carbon.

Regards,
Kevin
Note: I would frag a small piece of each coral you cannot get another piece of and place it in another tank just for safe keeping. It's a good idea to do that even with healthy corals because you never know what might happen.

 

[jezzeaepi]

I did some loooking around today, and noticed a few small dark brown flatworms around the base of one of my corals. I dont see any bite marks, so I kind of doubt they are AEFW, but is there a place that has pictures of all flatworms so I know if they are good or bad?

 

[Jan]

If they're dark brown and opaque, they're not AEFW (you're right)

 

[trido]

Heres one. http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/index.html

Ya, your right in thinking their not AEFW's. You definately wouldnt plainly see them around the base. You can hardly see them when you are looking for them down in the corals crevases and between the coralites. Here is a link if you want to give a quick look further into the AEFW's. http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html


I tend to think that the alk swings you had compounded with the stress of two moves and potential light acclimation issues has weekened them and only time and TLC will get you through this particular issue. A couple of my acros have started showing signs of lighting stress after nearly a month of being under more intense lighting.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Alright so I have a new theory as to why I am getting STN. My PH has been on the low end lately, and I believe my tank is suffering from a lack of oxygen. Its been pretty cold lately, so the windows have been all closed up, and there isnt as much fresh air coming inside. What have others done to remedy this? I can get my roomates to put up with a lot, but an open window isn't one of them. I have thought about doing the airline tubing to the window method, but there is nothing close to my tank. I would need to run a very long length of tubing and wonder if that would inhibit the skimmers performance? I seems like it would suck less air if it had to suck it through 50 feet of airline. Also it is an aparment so I can't go drilling holes through the wall. Is there any sort of "oxygen" reactor that I can use to combat the high indoor co2 levels?

Peace,
Jesse

 

[class clown]

Alright so I have a new theory as to why I am getting STN. My PH has been on the low end lately, and I believe my tank is suffering from a lack of oxygen. Its been pretty cold lately, so the windows have been all closed up, and there isnt as much fresh air coming inside. What have others done to remedy this? I can get my roomates to put up with a lot, but an open window isn't one of them. I have thought about doing the airline tubing to the window method, but there is nothing close to my tank. I would need to run a very long length of tubing and wonder if that would inhibit the skimmers performance? I seems like it would suck less air if it had to suck it through 50 feet of airline. Also it is an aparment so I can't go drilling holes through the wall. Is there any sort of "oxygen" reactor that I can use to combat the high indoor co2 levels?

Peace,
Jesse

If your PH is low and you're running a calcium reactor, I'd recomend making a simple degasser chamber which basically consists of a container, a bubbler, and an air stone and drip your effluent into this. That's what I do and I found it has a significant impact on keeping my PH higher.

 

[class clown]

Jesse - I had another thought.. Not that you want to spend any more $, but If the problem is bacterial, I wonder if an ozone reactor would help you?

I don't know much about these units as I've never tried one myself, but I've heard good things. I also wonder if they would help with your PH levels b/c of the added oxygen (not sure if there is a coorelation, but worth some researching perhaps)?

 

[jezzeaepi]

The PH is low without running a Calc reactor =\ Thats with me dosing kalk even...

Ill take a look at the ozone route, sounds promising.

 

[Jan]

Jesse,

You could try adding more turbulent flow at the surface of your tank (you know, to really disturb the surface), plus keeping one or more windows cracked, no matter how cold it gets. I think that would help. You could also talk to Mark Reimer about whether your skimmer could be modified to churn up more air. Some are moddable.

 

[kevinpo]

It is not likely you have low oxygen (but not impossible). Most reef fish would die before the corals as they consume much more oxygen than the corals. Also with roommates in an apartment the traffic in and out would move the air around. What do you consider low PH? A PH of 7.9 or higher is fine. Water flow and DOC buildup would be much more likely culprits. Try 10% water changes per week. Be sure to use RO/DI water for the changes and evaporation. Replace all evaporated water with kalkwasser.

One other note: be sure to get rid of the flatworms before the population gets too large. Killing off too many at once can have disastrous effects on the fish and corals when their body fluids are released.

HTH,
Kevin