Sump build question

[Reefbound]

awhile back I posted about building a sump for my 75 but I was going to put it 20 some feet away in another room,anyway i just picked up a 40 breeder for 40$ and I'm going to be getting the glass for the baffles and Im wondering how high should the baffles be and how many? Im going to have this as a sump with my skimmer in there... Inlet/Skimmer/ return pump, nothing fancy mainly just to increase water volume.

 

[Krish]

Sounds like fun! Well, to determine a height for the baffles, we'll need to know the operational height for the skimmer ( eg. my skimmer needs to be elevated with the gate valve above the water line to function properly)? You don't want the baffles too high because if they are and you turn off the return pump, the backsiphon may be too much for the sump and it will drain over the top. You usually need to make the baffles low enough where this wouldn't happen. as for how many baffles, it all depends how you want everything setup. Here's a photo of mine that is really simple and straight forward. The baffles are spaced 1 inch apart and one inch up off the bottom in the center baffle. As for height, I went a little higher than I should have, but it still worked out fine for whatever back siphon I would get when the return pump is turned off. I just kept the water in my return chamber kinda low and put an elbow on the pump so that it could still operate in about 2 inches of water if I had a ton of evaporation before I got a chance to top off. My sump is 14 high and I think my baffles are 8 high, but I can double check it

 

[Reefbound]

Well I have a Coralife Superskimmer 125 model and right now I cant access their site, some internal 500 error I get. Im a little worried about back siphon because Im using 1" pipe for the 20' run from the tank to the sump.

 

[Krish]

Yeah...Just thinking about the water alone that will sit in 20ft of 1 inch pipe could make the water rise a bit. You may have to use some sort of check valve as well as put a big enough siphon break hole in the return spout that almost instanly breaks the siphon. Where my return pump isn't necessarily my main source of flow, I put 3 holes in the nozzle to break the siphon quickly. It slowed down the flow some I'm sure, but it doesn't matter. It definately helped a lot

 

[Reefbound]

made mental note "lots of breaks"... on a side note I found the pdf instruction book and all I can see is the pump has to be no than three inches below the water line. If thats the case I could baffle for say 9" and put the skimmer on a stand, right? tank dimensions are 36"l x 18"w x 17" deep and that would leave quite a bit of room for the siphon.

 

[Krish]

Definately...If the tank is 17 tall, that will give you 8 inches of height above the baffles and if you just work out the empty space above the baffles that will be approximately 22 gals of "play" for back siphon (8x36x18 / 231= 22.4 gals) That's a lot of room! If your skimmer can be used externally and you have the space outside of your sump and wanted more space in your sump, here's what I did on my 75gal. My skimmer sat on a stand outside of the tank. Just thought I'd throw that incase it may help

 

[brianblack]

Ed

If you get a check valve get a plastic gate - I'll show you at the meeting. They take less pressure away than the spring type. All you need is a siphon break. idiot me does not have one but my check valve still works for the output and my sump is large enough to handle what ever drains with no power. You cam increase you load capacity with a rubbermaid container if you are still running to the back room and is there any more 40 breeeders for 40?? I will clean them out. nice for a grow out. Before you build look at mine. but is cheaper than building a sump per se and it is gonna get revamped so I can include the DSB again and accomodate skimmerstien. Got to clean out my back room and get ready for the next addition. The Xenia is growing like mad too.

Krish - nice sump. You build that?

 

[Krish]

Krish - nice sump. You build that?

Thanks and nope! I had both sumps as well as my cube custom built here in the Bahamas. They did a great job with it. The last sump photo I posted, I added on that last chamber to handle the back siphon from my sea swirl when I added it. I use to almost overflow without it!

 

[Reefbound]

Ed

You can increase you load capacity with a rubbermaid container if you are still running to the back room.

Im still running to the back room but I have a height issue, after I put the overflow on, the drop is going to start at 38" and drop down from there to the 40 breeder at 17". So one of those rubbermaid poly tanks is out of the question for two reasons...1. to high and 2. too wide. It has to fit between a wall and my work table(table is unmoveable and bolted to the wall).there is 6 inches to spare right now.

and to answer your question " is there more 40 bdrs? no, I actually got the last one he had...

Definately...If the tank is 17 tall, that will give you 8 inches of height above the baffles and if you just work out the empty space above the baffles that will be approximately 22 gals of "play" for back siphon (8x36x18 / 231= 22.4 gals) That's a lot of room!

If I get a gate valve as Brian described and use the siphon breaks I could actually make the baffles say 12", put the skimmer on a stand and that would give me a sump that 36 x 17 x 12 and the rest should be able to handle the back siphon... wow, looks good on paper heh...

 

[brianblack]

Ed do you have to put it on the floor?? Could build a stand for it?

 

[Reefbound]

Ed do you have to put it on the floor?? Could build a stand for it?

If I build a stand it will be all of three inches high ... :lol: I figure the lower the better. If you figure a 1/4 of drop in four feet then in 20' you would drop an 11/4 If my mind is working then I could possibly build a 17"stand + the 17" tank height that would be 34" high and give me a 4" drop to the sump.Right?
:lol:
well at least I wouldnt have to bend over as far...

 

[brianblack]

Just figuring the pump would not have to work so hard on the return.

 

[Reefbound]

Just figuring the pump would not have to work so hard on the return.

I thought about that too.
Im going to use a mag 12 and it will take 5 90's to get back to the tank. and using a head loss calc:
Total losses are 8.06 feet of head pressure, or 3.48 PSI. with a flow rate of 782 GPH.I may not have to throttle the drive I hope...
If I use 45's I actually lose more pressure. I guess I could build a stand and save 2'.

 

[brianblack]

If you are worried about flow loss maybe a pressure rated pump would work better for you. There are quite a few pressure rated pumps avail
gen x pcx-55 1140gph max head is 26.2 ft @ $140
gen x pcx-70 1537gph max head is 31.8 ft @ $153
Turbo sea pumps will but are a bit pricey Little giant has a few
Mag 12 only has a head of 14 ft. Now you may want to compare watts used between the brands too. I was looking at the sequenece series for my next pump. They do have some pressure rated pumps but the gph in the book I have is 5,200 to start a bit high for you http://www.mdminc.com/ is the home page for sequence. Just look at the flow curve and the power usage curve to help pick the best flow with the least power consumption on any pumps you are looking at.

 

[Reefbound]

my main driver for building this is the water volume addition and getting the skimmer and Emporer filter out of the main. I figured I would leave the heater and utilize a second in the sump also because that room gets chilly in the winter. as for water movement Im going to continue to use the maxjet mod because of the shear water volume it moves, and Im not worried about how much flow comes from the sump.Im also going to use a filter sock in the sump to polish also.

 

[brianblack]

Well if ya need help just call.

 

[sryder]

ed i would just add the check valve for the return close to the sump. this way you will have no water at all returning from there even in a power outage. the only thing you would need to handle would be the water in the tank up to the overflows and the piping going to the sump. if you put your sump so far away it seems to me you are defeating your main purpose of water volume. you will also have to take into consideration that if your evaporation rate is not automated for top off then the low sump levels can and will cause alot of air bubbles.

 

[brianblack]

I think volume did not mean flow but system total but you would need some sort of level keeping device in the sump. Can be from a container mounted higher with RO/DI water in it going to a float valve on the sump.