sump help / question

[jgalvin]

Hi, setting up my first tank with a sump. After looking for a few weeks for a used one, I bought a proflex sump and it arrived broken. I was hoping to set my tank up this weekend.

A couple months back, a fellow reefer gave me a used sump (its 30X10X16) and has two baffles (three sections). Inside my tank stand is only 34inches and i was hoping to have a small ATO reserve there as i travel for long weekends. So i had not intended to use it. But given the one i bought is being sent back, i wanted to run this idea by you guys.

Could I put the skimmer in the first chamber (first baffle goes to bottom and has a grate at top, then in the second champer put my return/heater, then instead of using the second baffle, extend it all the way down with another peice of acrylic and use that third section as a small ATO reserve (would hold 3 maybe 4 gallons of water)? Question is will I get bubbles back in the tank? Will this design work? My display tank is a 57g.

Any advice or info much appreciated.
James

 

[klwheat]

If you don't have baffles between your first chamber (overflow and skimmer) and your return - you will almost certainly have bubbles returned to the tank. You can add a couple of baffles (bubble trap) between sections 1 and 2, or I just use a 5 gallon jug hidden behind a stand beside my tank for topoff to keep the room open underneath. That way, you'd have room for a fuge.

 

[jgalvin]

thanks, is it the return that causes the bubbles? In the proflex model i bought (and returned), the last chamber held both the skimmer and return, so assume its the bubbles from the return, not the skimmer, correct. THere is only one baffle between section 1 and 2 on the one i have.

the tank is in our living room, so no place to put another jug. need to get creative in how i do this.

 

[Krish]

James, I used a two chamber sump before and never had one micro-bubble returned to the tank so you should be fine if I am reading your post correctly. One trick I use that helps with the micro-bubble issue is to put an elbow on your intake for your return pump and have it suck off of the bottom of the sump. Bubbles will rise so the lower you suck water from, the less chances you will have of picking up any bubbles. Also, it will will allow you more room in the return chamber before needing to top off. If something fails, the pump can be partly exposed out of the water and still function because you will be sucking as low as about 1/2 inch off of the bottom. I did this as well as used a bubble trap and that is all it took and this was a small sump about 20 inches long or so with 950 gph of flow passing through it minus whatever head loss I had. Here is a picture below to show you the sump. Right side looking at the picture with the skimmer was the input chamber, then a bubble trap and the return. If you look right under the phosban reactor in the return chamber, you can see the white elbow I spoke about that I used. HTH and good luck!

 

[DTECH07]

Took me awhile but here was what helped me with the setup of my Refuguim http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f124/all-about-sumps-59756/. Hope it helps

Dtech07

 

[klwheat]

The bubbles are not caused by the return pump, but they ARE pumped into your display by the return. They are caused by the protein skimmer and the overflow turbulence. Using a 2-chamber design should work fine, as long as you use baffles (bubble trap) like krish's picture shows. Then you can use the 3rd chamber for topoff/overflow.

 

[Krish]

The bubbles are not caused by the return pump, but they ARE pumped into your display by the return. They are caused by the protein skimmer and the overflow turbulence. Using a 2-chamber design should work fine, as long as you use baffles (bubble trap) like krish's picture shows. Then you can use the 3rd chamber for topoff/overflow.

Agreed on the return pump (although I'm not sure if someone mentioned here that the return pump caused micro-bubbles ...I'll have to double check and if so, thanks for adding that in here ). With that said though, a return pump can infact cause micro-bubbles, but it is only in the case of your water level in your return chamber of your sump dropping too low to where the pump starts to suck in both air and water, but other than that, as suggested, the return pump itself doesn't create the bubbles. The bubble trap is designed to eliminate any bubbles that may be formed before the return chamber so that they don't enter the return chamber where the pump could possibly pick them up and then transfer them into the tank. In the event that some do make it past the bubble trap (as it does happen sometimes) using an elbow on your return pump to suck low in the sump will reduce your chances of picking up any of these bubbles that might have happened to get in there.

 

[klwheat]

Then you can use the 3rd chamber for topoff/overflow.

I mean topoff/fuge.

 

[jgalvin]

Thanks everyone! I'm a little high on fumes from the weld-on glue as i write this Gotta love the TAP Plastics store - i went to the one in Bellevue. Here's what i tried to do (glue is curing now). First section is skimmer, water goes over a wall, second chamber i made into a fuge, i put another wall here, then another bafflle for a bubble trap (thinking i may put a sponge between the two baffles), then third chamber is for the return. Finally, i glued another piece of acrylic to close the final baffle all the way down, that forth area will be for a mini ATO (if i can get that section water tight). Not sure how long 4gallons ATO will get me on a 57h, but hoping it can last for a long weekend.

Learned a lot today about working with acrylic, i definitely should have made the width of the baffles a bit wider. i first used weld-on 4, then had to go get weld-on 16 as there were spaces from the bowing of the sump. if this doesn't work will just wait and reorder the proflex. Thanks for all the help, will post pics in a build thread as soon as i move the tank over.

 

[Krish]

Looking forward to seeing the pictures! With the sponge in the sump, if you go that route, be sure to clean it atleast every 3 days. If left to long in between cleanings/changings, the waste and crap that it traps will begin to rott and it will degrade water quality shooting up nitrates etc. so be sure to stay on top of things.

Good luck!

 

[klwheat]

Sounds like you had fun...lol. The only potential issue I see is having all of your flow going through the fuge. Typically, the fuge is low-flow rather than having your entire systems flow. It might work though....just not sure.

 

[Krish]

Sounds like you had fun...lol. The only potential issue I see is having all of your flow going through the fuge. Typically, the fuge is low-flow rather than having your entire systems flow. It might work though....just not sure.

I agree, but it all depends on what you plan on keeping in there. If something like chaeto then you should be fine as it is recommended that you have good flow through your fuge so that the chaeto could tumble, but as mentioned, all depends on what you are using the fuge for as some things require minimal flow.


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[jgalvin]

Thanks everyone. After 8 hour project yesterday moving and setting up the new tank, sump is working great so far. The ATO in the fourth chamber holds 4 gallons and is nice (being built right into the sump). I had bought a Tunze 1073.040 (792gph), and had to dial it all the way down as there was way too much flow. Will think about moving to the smaller pump soon.

Will post pics tonight, need to assess how many corals (and fish made it), no chance to acclimate, just got temp right and threw them in. ugg.

 

[jgalvin]

Thanks again everyone, i wanted to close out the thread with a picture of the sump. I don't have a refugium now, but the section with the heater and chemipure will be the small fuge location (6" by 10") . On the far right is the ATO sectoin that holds about 4 gallons for the ATO, enough to last about 6 days with the open top tank i have. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Krish]

Nice!!! Came out really well!!

 

[klwheat]

out of curiosity, what's the foam stuff between the heater section and the return section?

 

[Krish]

out of curiosity, what's the foam stuff between the heater section and the return section?

I almost took your for Don (DonW). You know that you two have the same avitar right?

As for the foam block, quite curious myself. Is it there to prevent micro-bubbles from passing through or something to trap waste? If to trap waste, be sure to stay on top of cleaning (or swapping it out regularily). I'd say as often as every 3 days because if not, the waste it traps will rott if it stays in there and degrade your water quality. Just a thought.

 

[jgalvin]

I almost took your for Don (DonW). You know that you two have the same avitar right?

As for the foam block, quite curious myself. Is it there to prevent micro-bubbles from passing through or something to trap waste? If to trap waste, be sure to stay on top of cleaning (or swapping it out regularily). I'd say as often as every 3 days because if not, the waste it traps will rott if it stays in there and degrade your water quality. Just a thought.

I just put the foam block there for mechanical filter, since then i've added a filter sock, so will just remove it.

 

[klwheat]

I almost took your for Don (DonW). You know that you two have the same avitar right?

Similar, but not the same. You're welcome to scan it and check out our non-profit's website

 

[klwheat]

I just put the foam block there for mechanical filter, since then i've added a filter sock, so will just remove it.

Ahhh...makes sense. I just got a new sock holder in the mail today Now I have to get a couple PVC elbows to fit it...lol. Guess that's tomorrows project.