Sump or sumpless? Need to figure this out fast.

[aquarookie]

OK, I am the world's biggest procrastinator. Everything is done at the last minute. I wonder how I get anything done at all

Anyway, I will be setting up my 125 in the dining room tomorrow (I spent many hours today moving the FW tank out of there to make room for the 125). I will be filling it with saltwater since it will have a bunch of live stock moving into it in a couple of days. So what I need to figure out (QUICK) is should I run it sumpless or re-drill the overflow hole (someone has previously patched it) and use a sump?

The tank is acrylic, so drilling should be easy... The hole would have to be on the bottom (the tank has a built in overflow but like I said the hole has been patched with another piece of acrylic). If I do use a sump, what size hole should I drill, and what is the best tool for it (a regular hole saw, or...?)?

Also, what are the best fittings and where should I get them? Krish, you are the diagram guy, could you help me with a drawing maybe? I just need to picture the fitting in the overflow hole (I would like to make it as big as practically possible, since I can always limit the flow with the return pump, it is good to have the ability to increase the flow).

What materials are good for the fitting? I have heard that PVC can only be used with cold water, and warm water requires CPVC. I don't know how critical it is, but I do know that CPVC fittings are pricey and hard to find. Any thoughts?

Thanks to everyone in advance

 

[Krish]

LOL! I say go with the sump to give you more versatility with equipment etc. As for hole size, if you want to go as big as you can within reason, I'd go with a 1.5 or 2 inch drain whichever is better for you. What you'd need is a bulkhead to go into the hole where you can find here http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Bulkheads but before you drill the hole, you'll need to get the bulkhead or get the hole size you'd need to drill as a 2 inch bulkhead for eg doesn't mean you drill a 2 inch hole. I just bought 1/2 inch bulkheads and had to drill 1.25 inch holes so check that first. Also, regular pvc is fine. Your water will never get that hot to where cpvc is needed.

Attachment 1 at the bottom shows an actual bulkhead.

Attachment 2 at the bottom shows the bulkhead in my sump which was how I attached the plumbing from the overflow to the sump.

Where you will be drilling the bottom of your tank, you will need some sort of standpipe to be able to set your water height and quiet down the drain noise and here is a diagram of a durso from another website. This is one of the ways to go about it (very popluar) and it shows you all the parts you will need. Let me know if that helps so far. You will have to make sure you have space in your overflow to fit the plumbing size you want to go with with the elbow for the durso otherwise you may have to go with a smaller size or use a straight standpipe like the stockman which you can see here http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...een=PROD&Product_Code=KS-ASE-1&Category_Code= People make these as well

 

[aquarookie]

Thanks Krish,

I knew I could count on you

Everything makes sense except for one thing: how does the hole size (in the end cap) determine the water height? I imagine it has something to do with air being able to escape or enter or... But I thought the height of the pipe determined the water height...

Also, I was supposed to drill this tank today but it did not work out. I MUST do it tomorrow, or else I will have to go without a sump (Tuesday the livestock goes in). So my question is, since time won't let me mail order it, where do I buy this "bulkhead" locally (I mean, hardware store, or aquarium store, or swimming pool supply place, or...)?

And do you think I should drill the acrylic with a regular hole saw, or would the teeth tear/crack the acrylic? Is there a special type of hole saw for acrylic tanks?

Thanks again for the advice, info, pictures. I REALLY appreciate it.

 

[morgan]

i run two sumpless tanks and i dream of a sump and a fuge how how nice it would be to have one

 

[burning2nd]

a sump is worth a billion words...... Eh i messed up,

A picture is worth a billion words.......

you need a sump homes

 

[burning2nd]

sorry bit big, gotta fix that.

you could buy one, but it would be just as eazy 2 build

 

[Krish]

Everything makes sense except for one thing: how does the hole size (in the end cap) determine the water height? I imagine it has something to do with air being able to escape or enter or... But I thought the height of the pipe determined the water height...

I have no idea I don't understand that either and basically just wanted you to see the diagram and parts needed.

Also, I was supposed to drill this tank today but it did not work out. I MUST do it tomorrow, or else I will have to go without a sump (Tuesday the livestock goes in). So my question is, since time won't let me mail order it, where do I buy this "bulkhead" locally (I mean, hardware store, or aquarium store, or swimming pool supply place, or...)?

Yeah...You can usually find them at a swimming pool place and are usually the heavy duty white ones. I guess color doesn't matter if it will be hidden. Other than that, not sure where else over there, but I know in the Bahamas, you can't find crap!

And do you think I should drill the acrylic with a regular hole saw, or would the teeth tear/crack the acrylic? Is there a special type of hole saw for acrylic tanks?

That one, not too positive. I've drilled very thin acrylic and plastic with a regular wood hole saw and it was fine. You just have to take your time, but where your tank is thicker than anything I've personally ever drilled I couldn't say. I usually let my friend who builds my sumps and tanks drill the thicker acrylic. If no-one else chimes in before my friend gets to work, I'll find out for you

 

[aquarookie]

i run two sumpless tanks and i dream of a sump and a fuge how how nice it would be to have one

Send me some dwarf cuttlefish, and I'll ship my sump to you . I must say, I do enjoy having a "sump" (if you can call it that) on my 54 corner bow front tank, but the tank does not have a built in overflow so I have an overflow box hanging on one of the sides... next tank I buy will DEFINITELY have a built in overflow . That will be my 155 bow front (someday...)

 

[dragoneggs]

When using your hole saw on the acrylic make sure you rock the bit around in a circular fashion to make the hole a bit oversize so the bit(saw) doesn't sieze up in the hole by getting too hot. You can easily melt the saw into the hole and it is a pain to get it free. Take your time... it is pretty easy to drill.

 

[scytale]

So my question is, since time won't let me mail order it, where do I buy this "bulkhead" locally (I mean, hardware store, or aquarium store, or swimming pool supply place, or...)?

If you haven't found a bulkhead already, Check out http://www.bluesierraexotics.com/ They're out in Issaquah, but they've got the best dry goods selection around IMO. (I know they have tons of other tank-related plumbing supplies!)

If you can get one from BlueSierra, then you avoid the blank, slack-jawed stares you'll probably get from most HomeDepot/Lowes employees....

 

[dragoneggs]

Also try a good plumbing store like Valley in Redmond. Give them a call first and see if they have them.

 

[aquarookie]

Thanks Mark. I would not want to get the saw stuck, that's for sure :lol:

BTW, since there was no way in heck I could've got this all done before getting the livestock (and I ended up getting it a day early), I put everything in my empty 100 gallon tank. It is now blocking the french doors to the back yard, but who cares :lol:

It actually worked out better that way. The livestock is evenly spread across the bottom of the tank, the corals will have a chance to open fully and show me their normal size so that when I place them in the 125 I will know where to fit what... This gives me a couple more days to work on the 125 (I would like to paint the stand and the back of the tank and do the whole overflow thing). I do need to hurry up since I don't want the corals getting TOO used to the 100 :lol:

Thanks for advice everyone! I'll keep you posted on my progress.

 

[aquarookie]

...avoid the blank, slack-jawed stares you'll probably get from most HomeDepot/Lowes employees....

Ha ha ha ha! I guess you are no stranger to Home Depot! :lol:

 

[scytale]

Ha ha ha ha! I guess you are no stranger to Home Depot! :lol:

Yeah, I'm new to the area, so I wasn't sure where else to go....
but then I found McLendon's Hardware right across the way in Woodinville,
I doubt I'll ever have to go to The Home Despot again!

Sure HD is a lot "bigger" (but it doesn't make them better) it just makes them obese!:lol:

 

[IAP Brian]

I might be too late for advise here but, the standard bi-metallic hole saws are fine for acrylic. dragoneggs gave good advise on the drilling part, also be careful when the saw is about to punch out the other side as it is easy to chip out around the hole.

As far as the LFS stores go, Jonas has by far the best dry goods stock at Blue Sierra and a really nice plumbing section. In the Tacoma area Paul @ Indoor Reef has a pretty good supply of bulkheads and loc line. In the north, Will @ Reef Mystique has a small collection of bulkheads and loc line (he's building his inventory and should be well stocked soon.) If you can get ahold of Eric @ Aquarium Concepts he has a good plumbing supply on hand in Shoreline, but I don't know if he sells much to walk-ins anymore. On our side of the water, I have a large stock of plumbing parts, bulkheads and Loc line as well. Good luck with the project.

 

[scytale]

If you haven't gotten one already....Blue Seirra had this item in their SW Shipment List #2 1/18:

(3) Bulkhead: Black: 1.5 in

Good luck with the sump! (installing one on my 80 gallon tank is one of my '07 resolutions.)

 

[burning2nd]

i would go with 1 and 3/4 in sted of half with 2 over flows, that would be

A half of a 3rd over flow, (if that makes sence)

 

[aquarookie]

Well, sorry for not updating sooner, but I finished everything last weekend. I have a 1.5" drain with a 3/4" return. Thanks to everyone for the advice (and thanks to Krish for the diagram and pics, that is exactly how I made the standpipe). I could've fit bigger drain (or two) into here, but for what I want the 1.5 inch will be more than enough. The tank already has livestock in it, and looks great. Now I just need to upgrade my lighting to MH (I am a big fan, not the kind that blows air). I am not sure if I should get twin 250's or 175's or 150's. It is a softie tank which is under 20" tall. I do have a BTA in it though, and I would like to get another anemone so I would not mind having higher light. It currently has a bunch of PC's over it, but I am quite fond of halides. I would appreciate thoughts on lighting.

 

[burning2nd]

t5 should do you justice....

t5 and mH is the way of the furture....!!