Sump Question

[tylert]

Is it ok if I have my return section covered by the refugium? What are some problems, if any, that you could possibly see coming up with this configuration? I am trying to figure out a way to give me the most volume in my refugium in the sump.

 

[preons]

your sump may not hold enough water if your electricity goes out with that set up.

If I could do everything over again I would keep a refugium out of sump. The yellow light grows algae on everything, tubes, reactors...

nice drawing though and good idea

 

[matts125]

in order to see if this will work or not you need to see if the sump can handle the volume of the extra water with the pumps shut off. to do this you need to go by cubic inches. so get the total cubic inches inside the sump above where your water level will be and then get the cubic inches of the top of your tank in order to do this take length x width x 2'' this should take care of the extra water in the tank with the pumps shut off....

For example:

If in the sump you have a total volume of 20''x18''x10'' = 3600 CI
and if your tank is 72''x24''x2''= 3456 CI so if these numbers were true then in theory you would be fine but only by 144 CI...

Is this clear enough to understand...

Other wise if the refugium is water tight and totaly sealed from the rest of the sump this design will work...

Hope this helps!!!

Matt

 

[Pentagona]

One problem that strikes me right off hand is being able to handle evap loss. By placing your fuge directly over the top of your return zone you dramatically reduce the amount of water that zone can hold which would likely mean that without the use of an ATO, you would likely come home to your pump sucking air every day.

 

[Pentagona]

If you wanted to do a fuge above your return zone, I would consider doing a "Suspended" or "elevated" fuge of some sort that would be seperate from the sump itself. On a seperate note, you really want RAW unskimmed tank water going into your fuge to maximize the benefit. Having your return pump bleed into the fuge especially after having already been filtered will be less effective.

 

[tylert]

What about in-line sumps where it goes skmmer-refuigum-return section, isn't that the same thing? The water goes through the skimmer first, then the fuge. I thought as long as the refugium water doesn't go through the skimmer it's fine. Why is it better to have un-skimmed water in the fuge? And yes I do have enough extra room if the power goes out and water drains into my sump

 

[tylert]

One problem that strikes me right off hand is being able to handle evap loss. By placing your fuge directly over the top of your return zone you dramatically reduce the amount of water that zone can hold which would likely mean that without the use of an ATO, you would likely come home to your pump sucking air every day.

yea thats what I was thinking, thats my main concern with this set-up. What should I do? ATO?

 

[Pentagona]

Raw unskimmed/filtered water is where the highest accumulation of nutrients is going to be, which is what feeds the algae in your fuge. This isn't to say that there aren't still nutrients in the left over water coming from the return, but to maximize the benefit of growing macro, you want it consuming as much as possible. The way I have always plumbed my fuges is to tee off of the inlet to the sump, or down pipe if you will, so I get raw water. Then the return from my fuge dumps back into the sump before my skimmer zone at the sump inlet as well. Like I said, if it were my sump, I would suspend a small fuge over the top of the return zone wit either a pvc platform, or something to that effect.

 

[kgross]

Why not make your fuge part of your return section. In your drawing, remove your bubble trap and replace it with a single baffle, then in front of the pump intake bulkhead, make an egg crate box to keep the chaeto/calurpea out of the pump. Then you have lots of water space for drain down and evap, and have an even larger fuge.

Kind of like this one. Only you don't need the second baffle for the bubble trap.

Kim Gross

 

[tylert]

Well I want to be able to control the flow in the fuge and have it slower then my sump. My design allows me to do that.

Are there drain hoses that split in two?

 

[kgross]

I will ask why do you want slow flow through your fuge? Chaeto will grow faster if it has enough flow to actually make it tumble in the fuge. If you talk to Anthony Calfo and other people they will say that the low flow rates that many people suggest actually cause the macro algae to grow slower rather than faster.

Here is a quote from Anthony on flow rates.

As for flow in any fuge... it is wholly dependant on the needs of the species kept. If its Gracilaria for pod production... you will need 30X +. If its Chaetomorpha, you can go less. Mangroves (if it were a larger refugium), less flow still.

30x+, so if you have 10 gallons for your fuge, you want over 300 gph of flow fro Gracilair or Chaeto.

But you can easily put a T in any drain line to split the flow between different outputs.


Kim

 

[tylert]

well my pump is about 700-800gph after all the head preassure. so my sump is flowing at that.

 

[kgross]

I would say that is a pretty good flow rate for a fuge. If you did the suggestion I gave, how many gallons would your fuge end up being? 15 to 20 gallons?

But you can do your plan, and you will have more headaches and your fuge will not work better than the higher flow rate.

Kim

 

[tylert]

Well my design will actually allow me to hold more water because i'm not affected by the baffles of the skimmer section and can have my water all the way to the top. And the flow your talking about is way too much. I don't want my fuge to be going at 100x. The quote you gave said 30x for chaetomorpha and less for everything else, and even less still for mangroves. You want the flow through the fuge to be slow enough for debris to settle in it and become trapped in the sand. I was told you want 25% of your water in your fuge, some even say 10% but i've never heard all the water. Thanks though Kim, I apreciate the input. I was also told to put Calerpa in the fuge, I don't know they're flow preferences but what do you guys suggest for the best plant?

I am going to take the advise Pentagona gave about a direct drain to the fuge, he's helped me before and knows what he's talking about. (Thanks Pentagona) Are there drain hoses with split y's?

I may just have a separate fuge in the cabinet but don't really know if it will fit. Or I could just put my pump in-sump in the middle and have the skimmer and fuge on each side draining into it, that might be best but I want to hear more opinions before I make a decision.

 

[tylert]

I will ask why do you want slow flow through your fuge? Chaeto will grow faster if it has enough flow to actually make it tumble in the fuge. If you talk to Anthony Calfo and other people they will say that the low flow rates that many people suggest actually cause the macro algae to grow slower rather than faster.

Here is a quote from Anthony on flow rates.


30x+, so if you have 10 gallons for your fuge, you want over 300 gph of flow fro Gracilair or Chaeto.

But you can easily put a T in any drain line to split the flow between different outputs.


Kim

My sump is only 30 gallons, the biggest I've been able to make the fuge is 8 gallons cause I have where the water comes in a sock and go thorough a sponge and carbon baffle which takes up 8". Thats how I got it. I have 22 inches left to figure out my baffles for my skimmer (11x11 w/o pump) and fuge. The whole thing is 30x14x16

 

[Pentagona]

NP Tyler, anytime. As far as hoses with Y's, if you're using flex hose you can buy barbed tee's at any hardware store. If it's PVC, you can just tee off of the down pipe.

 

[tylert]

yes but aren't "drain hoses" different? The ones that fit right in the bulk heads? It's funny cause I have flex tubing as my drain right now, which is perfect to tee off, but was going to switch it cause I thought a drain hose was better. This was before I knew I needed two drains.

 

[Pentagona]

either will work just fine.