Tales from the Crypt-ocaryon

[Reefreak]

Hi Steve,
I could really use some help here!
I purchased a Naso tang 8 weeks ago and put him in a 20 Gal. cycled, bare bottom quarantine tank. "has places to hide" After 1 week he came down with Crypt. Knowing the long term effects of copper on Tangs I decided to go with hypo-salinity, so I dropped the SG to 1.009 over a 3 day period.
Tank readings are:
Temp 78
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-trace <5
PH 8.2-8.3 using Seachem Reef buffer in makeup water "Check daily"
Alkalinity 3.66
SG 1.009 "check daily" checked with more than on refractometer that have been calibrated using RO, distiled and 53.0ms Calibration solution.
5 gallon aged and buffered water change every 3 days
About 1 week into Hypo the Parasites started to improve to the point there were 3 to 5 spots on a daily basis. AFTER 6 WEEKS of this I decided to perform a 5 min. freshwater dip, all spots were gone for 3 days so on the 3rd day I did another FW Dip and 1 more in another 72 hours for a total of 3 72 hours apart.
3 days later 3 to 5 spots show up again.
At this point I am thinking There may be some other cause like parasitic copapods or WEEK 8.... out of desperation I dosed the QT with PraziPro. This is only the 4th day but thought I would see some improvement by now.
Do you think I'm on the right track?

The Naso is in a low traffic area, seems very well adjusted with no signs of stress and is always happy to see me headed his direction with food.
Like most Naso's he is a bit finicky but will eat as much nori soaked in vitamins and a bit of garlic as I would let him have. The only other thing I can get him to eat is Formula2 "pellets" no frozen. "still trying stuff"

I have used copper with great success for many years but don't want to shorten his lifespan, as I suspect this is what happened to my last Naso.

I would appreciate any suggestions you might have.
Please let me know if I missed something

Sorry for the long post
Thanks Much

 

[Ashlar]

Shaun, thought about the 3-day transfer method? I don't know if the hypo-tolerant ich variant is a myth, or has been seen outside the lab, but if it really is ich, this would be a safer alternative than copper.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/3daytransfer.html

 

[Reefreak]

Thanks Ashlar, I had not thought of trying this. I will see what comes up in the thread first, but will keep it in mind as a possible option.
Has anyone personally had success with this method?

 

[Ashlar]

Np.. I used it with a Kole tang a while back. It was a pain in the backsideto be either tearing down a tank, setting up a tank, or mixing water every day for 15-18 days, but it meant no medications or stress on the tang, other than being moved every 3 days.

 

[steve-s]

The three day transfer method works very well but there is a great amount of stress involved and there is a higher mortality rate than that of just using hyposalinity. It is still a very good treatment when done correctly though.

Shaun,

Why use a hydrometer if refractometers are accessible? I am not saying that is the problem but as you know, hydrometers are temp dependent and if conditions for use are not almost "clinical" there is a large margin for error.

If the Naso has been in a 12 ppt environment for 6 full weeks, it's less likely your dealing with C. irritans (although not impossible) at this point although you may have been initially. If that environment has not been maintained exactly throughout the timeframe, it is possible the parasite is still there. You need to be very very sure on your salinity measurements (2x daily) and time frame throughout. This is the main reason I am never satisfied by telling someone to leave the salinity for 4 weeks and then your good to go. It should be 4 weeks past the last spot seen on the fish.

What color are the spots, do they show up in various areas or the same, what is the general shape/size/texture and can you post a picture at all?

 

[Reefreak]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry don't know how to post quotes from your post so I will try and answer your questions.

1: I don't own a hydrometer, it was the refractometers I checked for accuracy. I have been "extremely" diligent at maintaining the salinity at 12 ppt.

2: The spots are white with tan tinge "normal fluorescents" they appear to be round, smooth and no streamers of any kind or hooks that I can see. about the size of a grain of salt.
They do show up in various areas on the body "never fins" but most often on the cheeks between the eyes and mouth and the top of the head.
Pictures are his least favorite thing but I have one that shows a parasite on the top of the head near the first dorsal spine.

 

[steve-s]

Are those images of the fish in general or with actual parasites present?

With the coloration of this fish, I would expect Crypt (or any parasite) to be much more visible and easily identifiable than what you've posted. I don't even see any depigmentation areas. That's not to suggest there isn't a problem, just that there does not seem to be an immediate concern.

Personally I would allow this to play out a bit longer and see what happens. The fish is in absolutely no danger at the 12 ppt for awhile longer and it will also give you time to work on the food types. Be sure to include brown alga's in that mix.

I forgot to ask, was the Prazi dosed in the tank or the food? Does your LFS have access to formalin?

 

[Reefreak]

I will try to respond with quote post. hope I get it right

Are those images of the fish in general or with actual parasites present?

This picture shows a single parasite located near the first dorsal spine remember I said there were only 3 to 5 at a time.

With the coloration of this fish, I would expect Crypt (or any parasite) to be much more visible and easily identifiable than what you've posted.

Not sure what you mean about coloration?

Personally I would allow this to play out a bit longer and see what happens. The fish is in absolutely no danger

I'm not concerned about immediate danger here but its been 8 weeks at 12ppt how long do I keep suspecting its Crypt before raising salinity?

Be sure to include brown alga's in that mix.

Gets this daily

I forgot to ask, was the Prazi dosed in the tank or the food?

I dosed the QT tank

Does your LFS have access to formalin?

I have a bottle of formalin on hand

 

[Reefreak]

Hey Steve,
This fish has been at 12 ppt for OVER 3 MONTHS now and the crypt still comes and goes. I have meticulously stayed on top of all parameters. Crypt seems to be very resistant to hypo.

Do you have any advise before I resort to Cupramine?

Thanks Much