tank again

[spongebob lover]

Hello everybody !! Well i checked my water and this is what i found with the test kit : my water temp. is 82 F. , PH: 8.0 , NITRITES : 0.2, NITRATES: 0, AMONIA: 0.5 and my ALKALINE said that it was high wich i don't know if that's good . Is this good..?
The pictures i showed you is my tank and the filtration ( i think that's what you call it)
Well, about Mojoreef's idea i think that's a great idea, now there's another problem my sand its getting dark red i mean almost all of it now has red and bubbles.
My boyfriend got a draggonet this friday and it seems like he's eating the worms but not to many, so i guess i will do the cutting board thing. About how many times i do the water change i do 3 galons every weekend, i feed my fishes only once a day and very little food. I top up with RO, i'm sorry but i dont know what's NSW (Damer) ohh and my lights are on from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.. About what kind they are i'm not sure but i belive they are halide ohh and ya sorry again Damer but i dont know what's a DSB . I also didn't know that you are suppose to clean the pumps, the gravl etc. i have only clean the glass and the live rock since the worms started which is about 3 to 4 months aprox. .( writeme43) i don't know what's a planiria and i'm thinking about changing the whole sand no joke. ohhh and the last one is my tank is a 37 galons.
I'm sorry, but it's just that i'm new with all these things.

 

[NaH2O]

Hi SBL. I wanted to post this info from your other thread:
Fish: 2 clowns, a yellow tail damsel and a bicolor pseudochromis Now added a dragonet, 37 gallon tank is 1 year old

Based on your water chemistry results, it looks like your tank is going through a cycle. Because you have ammonia and nitrites, indicates it is cycling. Also, algae and cyano (the red stuff on the sand bed is cyano) will feed on the phosphates you have measured, too (plus feeds on the nitrogen). These nutrients would explain the flatworms and cyano outbreak. Here is a thread called Nitrogen Cycle Explained - it may help you get an understanding of what the nitrogen cycle is all about. I suggest you water change until to bring your ammonia, nitrites, and eventual nitrates down, so you don't put any stress on your fish. How old are your test kits? You may want to double check your water with the local fish store, to see if they get similar results. DSB = deep sand bed.

Trying to figure out where the nutrients are coming from will be important. You can take a water sample from the sand bed, and test it for phosphates. If the phosphates from the bed are higher than the water column, then we have found where they are coming from. With regards to the ammonia - I'm thinking on that one. You are doing water changes every week, only feeding once a day....how much are you feeding?
Now, onto the Mandarin. These are delicate fish, that I normally don't like to see in tanks much smaller then 100 gallons (also need to be a mature tank with lots of live rock), unless kept by an experienced reefkeeper that is aware of their needs (you indicated a 37 gallon tank). They feed on pods in the tank, and as you have observed, yours is eating the flatworms. Without a sustainable pod population, or getting the fish to eat prepared foods, the fish may starve (feeding extra food at this point will increase the nutrients in the tank + you are going to remove some of the flatworms). If keeping the fish is a priority, I suggest reading the following articles, so you are aware of the fish needs.
The Synchiropus splendidus Series, Part One
The Synchiropus splendidus Series, Part Two
The Synchiropus splendidus Series, Part Three
The Synchiropus splendidus Series, Part Four

Feeding a Mandarin Part One
Feeding a Mandarin Part Two

Try not to get discouraged. I have tossed a lot of reading out to you. I'm hoping others will chime in with suggestions and extra information to help you along.

One more question - Do you have a skimmer on this system?

 

[spongebob lover]

Thank you very much for all your info. like i said before i'm really really new with all these. About the water changes do you think i should change more water than usual because i only change 3 galons and so i don't know if that's good enough. The test kits are 1 year old. About the water sample from the sand bed i know it sounds stupid but how do you do that?.
My fishes' food before it used to be just normal flakes that i got from petco but since 1 week ago i've been feeding them some frozen fish food that it's called formula one and they are little cubes that everytime i have to feed them i just cut a tiny little bit of the cube and then i add like a tablespoon and a half of water from my filter and then i spread it so when they get it, it's like tiny things of food (sorry if i cannot explain to good but english is my second language ) which is less than 1/4 of a teaspoon.
Now, the marine fish is a very pretty fish which i didn't even know until Damer told me and like you said it has to be taken care by an expert which i'm not and if i see the poor fish not eating well or something i will give it away because i don't want him to die like a fish i had before. I will read all the info that you gave so i can learn more and thank you very much for all your help it's been really helpful.

 

[wrightme43]

You are doing good, your doing the right thing asking. Don't get discouraged.
The best reefers started out the same way you did, and most have done a whole lot worse learning. If you are topping up with ro/di water, get 10 gals. Mix up water with salt and do a 10 gal change. If it were mine I would do at least 4 of these do one every weekend, unless you can do it on wends day and saturday then do a 5 one day and a 5 the next. It is stressfull for the fish to have that happen, but it seems to me that it will be less than what they are living through now. I would recomend not adding anymore fish to your tank till every thing is stable.
Do you have children? is it possible that one may of snuck in some fish food or a piece of human food?
NSW is natural seawater Planaria are the flat worms. if I am correct.
The red stuff is cyano bacteria.
It says your sand bed is one year old. What kind of sand is it. Could it possibley be play sand or masonary sand? Basicly what I am asking is, what kind of sand. IE live sand from a Local Fish Store= LFS, or is it dry sand from a LFS is it Aragonite?
I do not belive that a sand bed could become phosphate loaded in less than a year unless the bact, and pods and such are not using it.
Do something else for me if you dont mind. Measure the depth of your sand bed. Measure from the bottom out side to the top of the sand bed. I just want to know.
Also do you have large rocks sitting directly on the sand bed or are they on the glass with the sand poured around them?
If you want to take a sample from the sand bed itself you can get a large syringe like for test kits or for refilling printer ink cartridges, stick it in the sand and draw up from the bottom.
Look under your tank with a flash light, look up at the glass. Do you see large black areas?
If you stick to it and keep reading you will have a beautiful tank, and a rewarding hobby for life.
Hope this helps you. Steve
High alkylity is normal in a saltwater tank. That reading leads me to belive you are using a test strip kit. If that is so. Watch around the forum and find someone who lives close to you. Ask them to come over with High quality test kits and check your tank.
Have you tried a polyfilter (chemical impregnated) It will help, but, not solve your problem. I always have on hand, because if you mess up it can save your butt. They are expensive 10$ usually but well worth it. That enough of me I am sure so I hope you have a good night. Steve

 

[NaH2O]

You haven't said if you have a skimmer, yet. If you did, I may have missed it. What type of skimmer are you using?

As wrightme43 indicated - is it possible that someone else in the home is also feeding the tank?

With taking a sample from the sand bed, another approach if wrightme43's doesn't work, is to make a little pocket/hole with your finger or turkey baster in the sand and use the syringe to suck the water out of that space.

It is also possible that your test kits may be bad, and you might benefit by purchasing some good quality kits. Also, I would urge you to get an ALK test that will tell you the level of alkalinity in your system. Depending on the type of corals you want to keep, you could also get a Calcium test kit, too. What do you keep your specific gravity or salinity at?

Since I didn't give you enough to read before, here's some more! This thread is on husbandry, so you can get an understanding of how people perform their maintenance. Let's Talk About ~Aquarium Husbandry~

 

[Rob Schwartz]

Hi Spongebob,

It seems like you are getting some great advice. Don't ever worry about sounding silly, some of the questions you've brought up are ones that I had myself and I've been doing this for almost three years now!

Could you also mention if you have not already done so in your other thread, how much water movement you have in the tank. As an example, when food floats down to the sandbed, does it just drop or does it move around a lot showing that the water is not stagnant.

To Nikki and Wrightme, thanks for all the advice. I never knew how to or even thought of taking water samples from the sand, and I've had some interesting cyano breaks that I could never comprehend!

Best,

Rob

 

[Angelscrx]

Spongeboblover, change foods. I had the same thing to feed my tank and it raised my phosphates which caused my Cyano algae outbreak. There were other things that contributed to it but once I got rid of everyhting else it kept coming back. Once I switched the food it died off. I thought I'd give it sometime to see and then decided I would finish using the food again and here comes the red again. So it is gone for good. I only feed with flakes in the morning and frozen at night now it's frozen all the time. My 2 cents.

 

[damer]

gday spongebob,

DSB= deep sand bed. this is what a lot of people have at the bottom of their tanks. when the sand/crushed marble/ crushed coral etc get to be around 10cm deep, you will get a hypoxic layer of sand at the bottom. the bacteria here are anaerobic and will convert nitrate to nitrogen gas.

NSW= natural salt water. straight from the ocean. (got to love living 20 minutes from crystal clear water!!!!)

ok, now to your problems.

stop feeding flake. some types contain LOTS of nitrates/phosphates, and if you are feeding even a little bit too much water quality will decrease quickly.

decrease your photoperiod, to maybe 8 hours, just until the cyano clears up.

has anything died in the tank lately, as fish decompose in the tank they give off ammonia.

test the RO water for nitrate and phosphate. some shops, if you are buying it, dont change their membranes enough.

ammount of water circulation?

a good golden rule ( i know, there are hundreds!!) is around 10% water change a week. at the moment i would do 20% twice a week.

you dont really need to clean your sand, or the rock for that matter. in your sand/gravel you will get little "critters" called detritevores, which will consume most of the bad things.

do you have any books? i have been in this hobby for a little while now and i still get out books from time to time, there are some good ones around which we can put you on to.

ask as many questions as you can, dont feel like you have asked too many, i would rather try to answer hundreds of questions than hear of a tank being wiped out due to a mistake.
you probably feel a little overwhelmed/disheartened by all the questions we are asking you, dont worry we will fix it. just take your time reading all the posts, and try to answer each question.

regards

damien

 

[NaH2O]

you dont really need to clean your sand, or the rock for that matter. in your sand/gravel you will get little "critters" called detritevores, which will consume most of the bad things.

This is true, however, these critters break down detritus, and then also poop. The waste continues down the line, but it doesn't disappear. Our tanks have a bottom to them, so once it hits bottom, there is no where to go, so the sand begins to fill up. By stirring up and siphoning the detritus and waste off the top layer of sand, you are removing a lot of material that will fill the bed. Detrivores should be replenished often, as natural selection will often limit the variety present in the sand. Another thing to remember, in our tanks, we won't have the diversity and populations present out in the ocean....plus we have that darn bottom of the tank, so the end-products can only sink so far. With regards to live rock, this should be turkey basted or blown with a powerhead often, because, again, the detritus needs to be freed from the rock. The algae will grow on these areas. Through bacterial turgor, detritus will be pushed out of the rock, however, the turkey baster will aid in the action. Here is a thread called
Let's Talk About ~Filtration Concepts~ page 3, post #34 is where DSBs are discussed. Hope it helps.

 

[wrightme43]

good post nikki

 

[damer]

nikki,

not wanting to get off topic too much, but this has to be one of the topics of debate all over the world. the advice i give to people is what works for me and others who i know. it is then up to that person to either take the advice on board or disregard it. everyone has "golden rules". i have never touched my sand, and never "turkey basted" my rock, i also know quite a few people with reasonably old tanks that never do. in fact i know someone who has a tank which is 18 years old, never touched the sand or rock for that matter and still has some of his original fish (large angels).

please, i am not trying to cause a debate, or trouble for that matter. i understand your post competely, and yes the entire thing is true. its just that in my opinion, and its only an opinion, its not needed. my method works for me, but i would never believe that my "golden rules" will work for the next person.

regards,

damien

oops, i should add that my tank that i am talking about had been running for about 6 years, i finished pulling it down a couple of weeks ago and have upgraded to something a bit bigger.

 

[wrightme43]

Great, I like the fact that there is more than one way to do this. If there wasnt we would all be in trouble. I used to suck out 1/3rd of my sand bed and put it in a 20 gal tote with a 802 turned upside down and a quick filter on it. It worked but I now know there may be a better way. Was I wrong? no. The fish and corals thrived. Was I right? no. I could of released hydrogen sulfide gas and killed everything. I was just lucky till I Knew better. One thing I really like about this place is nobody gets mad because we disagree, it just seems that you had better have your head screwed on tight to understand some of the stuff. I will shut up now. Steve

 

[NaH2O]

damien - I see where you are coming from. My approach is for people to understand the basics of their systems, and make decisions accordingly. Live rock functions the way it functions, the sandbed functions the way it functions. If I can help people understand these things, then they can make educated choices, and be able to problem solve. I'm glad the way you care for your tank and people you know works. I am presenting information to help Spongeboblover correct an excess nutrient issue that is causing an algae outbreak plus flatworms.

Don't worry about causing debate or trouble. Debate is good, it lets us understand each other. And believe me, you are far from causing any trouble around here. It's great to have you on the board.

 

[spongebob lover]

hello everyone!! i just wanted to say that thank you very much for your help.
About my tank well ... the mandarine or draggonete died after all that reading he died on me hehe at first i was very upset because these fishes are very expensive and he just lasted me 3 days, but then i understood that he was hard to keep.
now my sand it suppose to be crushed corals from the caribean and i have 2.5 cent. of sand and my rocks are sitting on the sand and i don't have any black areas so far hehe ohh and my test kit i got it for free at petco ( someone returned the box because it was a little bit wet and so they gave it to us for free at that time) but if you know a good test kit that i could use just let me know.
I do have pretty good flow because everytime i feed the fishes the food just moves everywhere (rob)
Right now i'm just feeding my fishes the frozen fish food which they really love.
About fishes dying well when i got my bicolor pseudomis the guy from the store gave a a free fish i didn't know what kind of fish was and so he starved to dead because he never came out from the rocks and so i never knew what happened to his body because he was to little.
I don't know any good books i could read but if you guys know any good ones please let me know because the only info i'm getting it's from you.
Ohh ya and sorry NaH20 i don't know what's a skimmer.
Anyways i will read the filtration concept and thank you everyone

 

[wrightme43]

Hi, A skimmer is a filter that uses air bubbles to remove protien before it rots in your tank. Great Invention. Wide varations in quality. Get a good one. The best book I have found for a new person or experinced is The Consceintious Marine Aquarist. By Bob Fenner. Hook up on that. It is awesome. IMO the best value for the money in test kits is Salifert. I like them easy to use and accurate to boot. For a small tank My opinion is that a Seaclone for 67.99 or a prizam for 89.99 are good choices. I am getting a aqua-c for my tank but right now I am using a prizam pro deluxe, up to 300 gal supposedly. Get a skimmer It will help you alot and I mean a lot!

 

[NaH2O]

I agree with Wrightme43 - Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Fenner is an excellent book. I also agree that Salifert makes great test kits. You will be surprised by the nasty skimmate that collects in the skimmer cup after you have a skimmer set-up. They do a great job in removing the DOCs (dissolved organic compounds). Don't let the smell of skimmate when cleaning out the cup bother you....just be glad that junk isn't in the tank. Sorry to hear about the loss of the mandarin, but you have learned something. Keep asking questions, and you will get there. Look at the sponsors page on our board, you will find some good deals by ordering online rather than going to the fish store. Many of our sponsors offer discounts. Captive Reefs offers a discount when using a coupon code of RF, Custom Aquatic offers a discount by clicking through on the banner in the sponsor page, etc. Check out the deals you can get.

 

[wrightme43]

I like my skimate over ice in a old fasioned glass, only after 5 p.m. MMMMMM frothey! I does turn your tounge black though. LOL

 

[damer]

sorry to hear about the mandarin, goes to show that you should really research everything you are thinking of buying.

can you find out exactly how much flow you have. do you have powerheads in the tank?

another good book is Natural Reef Aquariums by John Tullock

damien

 

[spongebob lover]

yes i do have 1 powerhead and i'm not sure but its like 150 GPH and my main pump does 350 GPH and thank you about the books i will buy them so i can learn more

 

[damer]

i would put another powerhead in there.

how are the flatworms going? i doubt if you will be able to get rid of everysingle one of them manually.