Tank size/configuration questions

[Skawt]

We have made the decision to move forward and get a 'real' setup and have a few questions.

Our goal is to have a mostly FOWLR along with compatible reef inhabitants. Basically that means acquiring fish that are reef and community compatible along with other reef life that will do well in a tank that while well equipped does not necessaily have lighting, etc. designed for a true reef setup.

I would like to find a deal on a used system so obviously that would mean compromise but some of my thoughts are:

Tank size:
We would like to keep a dwarf Angel and a Tang so room to swim is important. 48" length just does not seem like enough. In the area we will locate the tank I think the largest that will fit would be 60" L x 24" W. Is that sufficient?

My thinking is that 60lx24wx18h (110 gallons) would be perfect. Of course alot of tanks are either 48" or 72" long so it may be tough to find a good deal on a used 60" tank.

Filtering:
I would like to have a sump with skimmer and a refugium in the cabinet. If I find a deal on a freshwater tank/cabinet setup that does not come with overflow,sump, etc. is it a major undertaking to install an overflow and plumb the return?

Lighting, etc.:
This seems like the point where the cost for a FOWLR and reef system start to really change. I would like enough lighting for at least a couple of anemomes to host shrimp/clowns but do not want to go too far down the path of expensive lighting, calcium reactors, etc., etc.



Since we have the 29 gal. setup to keep everyone entertained I have high hopes that we will be able to go slow, get the right equipment, and take our time with the initial cycling, etc.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[busdriver]

I like at least 24" front-back. If you can get one that is bigger front to back that would be great... If you get a custom tank you can get one that is bigger front-back... and drilled would be best... you don't have to put bright lights on the hole tank if you want to do it cheap. with the shorter tank light 18" like you are thinking, your lights won't need to be quite so bright.
if you want more specific addvice. goto: www.reefvideos.com
I haven't tried it yet, but i'm a big fan of the "pegging" method.
i'm use to using aquasacpe or millput to hold rock together or rock to the glass...
Hope this helps
also if you have sand you can plumb your pipes under it, so you don't have as many pumps in the tank it self...
I hope this helps!
Stephen

 

[burning2nd]

72x24x15 would be my size of choice... but what ever you get make sure its reef ready... you will thank your self later

 

[ROWAUSA]

you will have a tough time find lighting that is 60" long. There are more options for 48" and 72".

 

[burning2nd]

nothing a fabricator cant handle

 

[loohunter]

i have an acrylic 60" tank and stand i'll let go for 50 bucks the tank is old and has light scratches here and there but could easily be buffed. most of the scratches can't be seen when it is filled

 

[returnofsid]

The only problem I forsee is in your lighting. You mention not wanting to spend the money on "reef" lighting, but you mention wanting anemones. Problem is, Anemones are among the most light demanding reef inhabitants. Also, I would recommend AGAINST having more than one anemone in any tank.

Other than that, I think you're on the right track!!

 

[Skawt]

Ok, made the plunge and picked up Steven11's 75 gallon setup today. We are going to paint the cabinet black and build our own canopy. I'm going to start a new thread in the next day or two to track the progress on the project.

Initial setup:
75 gal. tank with built-in overflow
15 gal. sump with Mag 9.5 return
Icecap 660 ballast with 3 VHO bulbs
Red Sea Prizm hang-on skimmer in sump

Thinking about getting a 50lb. box of signature rock from Deep Water Rock unless someone has some LR they are looking to get rid of at an affordable price.

 

[youareafever]

imo the mag 9.5 is gonna be overkill for a return, unless of course ur trying to go for the high flow rate through the sump. is the red sea prizm gonna be the skimmer on this system for good?

 

[burning2nd]

the red sea isnt gonna be good on any system,

 

[Skawt]

the red sea isnt gonna be good on any system,

Ok, good to know. I found a used one and everything I read made it sound like it was a decent skimmer but not one of the best.

 

[gary shandling]

I say this with only the best intentions.

FOWLR means Fish Only With Live Rock. This means you want fish that arent reef or invert safe. These means keeping coral is hard if not impossible.

If you want even 1 coral then its all about the coral so water quality is first. Then reef type fish for less waste of money and more important to me , your time.

In a reef tank think of fish as part of the CUC and MB 1 or 2 for eye candy if reef safe.

This is the biggest mistake in this hobby. Undecided about a reef tank or FO tank. So many just do both and then a yr or more later and many wasted hours and money from buying stock to feeding to extra maintance to being missled and confused.

Having a reef tank in your living room that not only survives but can thrive is a very cool and lucky thing.

The sad part is anyone can setup a tank and seem to have great success to only fail after time. Its the long term succes thats the hardest.

 

[Skawt]

FOWLR means Fish Only With Live Rock. This means you want fish that arent reef or invert safe. These means keeping coral is hard if not impossible.

I think that I may just not have a good enough definition of Fish Only and Reef. Where is the line, corals? I don't know that saying FOWLR necessarily means wanting fish that are not reef or invert safe (I would say my ignorance means we will end up with things that eat each other from time to time but hopefully I'll be able to keep my education one step ahead of my eyeballs )

As for the fish population our goal is as varied a community as possible that will get along. Besides fish we currently have a few peppermint shrimp, some crabs, snails, and an anemone with an anemone shrimp (These two are everyones favorite). Besides the anemone this is still FO isn't it?

 

[gary shandling]

Fish like angels and triggers and lion fish and eels mean no coral. Fish like clowns and wrasses and blennys and ect.. mean your 1 coral away from a reef tank.

Fo tanks fish are messy eaters and eat your CUC and many eat coral. Fish can live in water conditions that coral wont so minimizing added fish and fish waste means healthy coral and less headaches.

FO or FOWLR means aggresive fish that arent reef safe. The WLR part means better bio filtration with the added live rock.

If you have a FOWLR tank with clowns and reef type fish then its a FOWLRLC tank. Fish only with live rock lacking coral....

 

[youareafever]

the way i see it skwat, keep watever fish you want. just make sure they will get along, and if you want to keep a few inverts go for it, just make sure you can care for it and that they also will get along with watever else you got in the tank.

its good to not take things in this hobby so literally.

 

[gary shandling]

That thinking is wrong. First of all , the fact you can keep a small piece of a reef in your living room is a gift and needs an understanding.
Then most of the fish you buy were caught from the ocean in the natural inviroment just to be bought by you for some highly miss informed use.
If you want to just add a buch of fish and then hope for the best then fine , but telling someone else to do this isnt responsible salt water edicate.
Please dont just add a bunch of fish and hope for the best. Measure 3 times and cut once.

Im not surprised at all....................

the way i see it skwat, keep watever fish you want. just make sure they will get along, and if you want to keep a few inverts go for it, just make sure you can care for it and that they also will get along with watever else you got in the tank.

its good to not take things in this hobby so literally.

 

[youareafever]

apparently you didnt read my post.

 

[burning2nd]

i dont agree.... FOWLr is a salt water tank with our with out inverts... that will nOt have coral... your looking for a reef tank look minus the reef...
if you make your FOWLR the right way, later on down the road, when you deside that you want to make a reef. it will be eazyer for u.

Just cause you dont have coral doesnt mean you have to get agressive fish....

and that also doesnt mean you cant have a agressive fish reef tank.. you just shouldnt mix friendly community fish with non friendly fish... for 2 reasons.
One its a waste of money to add a nemo, or small goby when you have a trigger in the tank...
two its not far that you cage a smaller fish with a fish that will do nothing but try to eat him 24/7

i dont know where the literally thing is comeing from... i think its a lot simpler then that...

its money and humanity

 

[mmn_usn]

I agree with burning. FO tank does not have to be agressive. I have seen quite a few that are FOWLR that have no agressive fish in them(unless you count the damsels)

Gary... I think you are being harsh for what is going on here. Are you saying that you have never killed a fish or lost livestock in your reef keeping experience?

I have taken fish from the ocean and kept them in a tank. I have had other fish of the same kind kill each other. I have dropped a light in the tank and lost all but one fish, pump short out in the tank..the list is long, and I have learned alot.. Accidents happen.. and that is how we learn. And just sometimes you buy a fish with all the knowlegde in the world of how it is going to get along with others and it is totally thrown off by putting it in your tank and having a clown fish.... or damsel just beat the crap out of it.

Here is my $0.02.. Do your research... ask around at the LFS's. Join a club and attend the meetings. Go to swap meets and look at what is being bred locally. When your tank is ready interduce the fish from you list of what you want to keep vs what will live together most peacefully(via your research) and that you can aquire at the same time. Fish tend to set up territory very quickly in their new enviroment. I have had damsels claim their stake within 2-3 hrs... and sometimes it is hard to add another fish after that.

And most of all... have fun. It doesn't have to be stressful... directly on the spot...(to what everyone else says to do) We all have our own opinons and we all do things differently. I for instance have not checked more than my SG in over 9 months... including a move. I have softies, SPS and LPS, along with multiple fish. One is the damsel that survived electocution and 2 moves now. I also run a canister filter and a hang on the back(whisper filter)... where many have said that I won't get enough filtration with, and do not run a skimmer(because of heat issues and I broke the inlet and the laziness factor has kept me from getting the new part)

So do your research, ask around and have fun... that seems pretty easy and it should. Oh and take everything here with a grain of salt... and do it your own way... it is your tank... and all we can give you is advice.

 

[burning2nd]

ftw with the damsels, i have a srg major in a 10g He needs to be alone... He would reek havoc in my tank