trouble understanding refuguims

[doug onion]

I have been trying to read as much as i can to not ask stupid questions. But im stuck i want to design a refuge. and the demensions i can use are l:24"w:12h14". I went to mels reef and looked at pics. but im not sure of how much space to use for sections and what i all need. Please explain things like you would to a two year old so i'll understand.

 

[user 26995]

What size is your display tank? Are you talking about a sump, or just a refugium?
As for a sump, you want enough room in the first chamber to hold your skimmer, unless you are using a HOB skimmer, and a heater and any other filtration material. The chamber for the return pump needs to be just big enough for the pump to fit. If you have any room left, you can use that for a refugium. The height of each dividing panel is determined by how high the water level needs to be in each chamber, keeping in mind that when the power to the return pump is turned off, there will be water from the tank flow back into the sump, so leave room for that.
Maybe we can post some pics that might help.

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[user 26995]

Oh by the way...Welcome to RF!
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[Spinner]

+1 above.......go as big as you can fit......never heard someone say DANG my sump is to big I don't know what to do with all this room

 

[07FocusST]

+1 above.......go as big as you can fit......never heard someone say DANG my sump is to big I don't know what to do with all this room

Well..... I once knew this guy.......

 

[doug onion]

i have a 90 bow front. i want to change from a wet dry filter to a refuge. I dnt knw if with the space avalible if its possible. thank u guys. I dnt have internet access so i cant keep up on it as quick.. thanks for the patience and understanding

 

[user 26995]

Its possible. you dont need a large area for a fuge. The fuge area in the sump on my 75 is only 7"L x 7H. The sump is 24"L x 12.5"D x 16.5H
The first compartment is 9.5"L x 11.5H and the last chamber with the return pump is 5"L and water level is the same height as the refug area. the divider between the refug and the return pump chambers is only 5.5" tall with egg crate and screen extending a few inches higher, so critters can not crawl into the return section and get into the pump.

 

[doug onion]

thanks ipisces, how do u get the water to flow thru the sand bed? do i need a power head,how do u keep the water level? did u cut baffles or leave space on the bottom of the dividers. sorry for all the ?'s. I wanna do it right. could u post pics to better help me understand? im usin the computer at work. I really appreciat the help allot

 

[Derbird]

thanks ipisces, how do u get the water to flow thru the sand bed? do i need a power head,how do u keep the water level? did u cut baffles or leave space on the bottom of the dividers. sorry for all the ?'s. I wanna do it right. could u post pics to better help me understand? im usin the computer at work. I really appreciat the help allot

Why do you want the water to flow through the sand? Many people use a deep sand bed in the refugium and if you do this you do not ever want to have oxygenated water flowing through it. If you are doing a shallow sand bed you still do not need water flowing through it. The water will naturally seep through the sand and the bacteria will do its job. IME you want a slow steady flow through the refugium to allow the macro algea to absorb the maximum amount of NO3 and PO4

Are you trying to build a sand filter? If so I would do it seperate from you refugium.

 

[pandora32]

Heres a couple pics of my sump. A lil different than some, but it works great. Water enters on left via 1 1/4" hose into skimmer section, overflows first baffle into fuge, overflows the fuge into the bubble trap. The trap isnt your standard trap. Instead of 3 baffles, i only have 2. I have black eggcrate in the bottom of my trap (4" across) and a piece of 3x4 foam filter on top of the eggcrate. Also, as you can tell, i have a bunch of liverock in my return section. Sorry for the bad pics. Theyre from my ohone. And welcome to RF.

 

[user 26995]

You know, I have never used sand in my refugium, but the flow from just moving to and from the tank should be enough. This is a pic of the 50B that I am using for the sump on my 180. It is the same basic design that I use on all my tanks.
The over flow from the tank comes in on the far right. That section will have the filter sock and the skimmer in it. (using estimated measurements) Say the skimmer requires a water level between 8" & 12". The first baffle will be placed on the bottom of the sump and would be somewhere between 9" & 11". All preference. I only have one baffle after the first one, but most use two more acting as a bubble trap. The water flows under the second baffle and over the third. The second can be set as high or as low as you prefer. Not too low, or it will restrict flow. The third baffle is also placed on the bottom and should not be any higher than the first or it will raise the water level in the first chamber.
I needed more room in the first chamber for a big skimmer so I didn't have a lot of room in the middle chamber for the refug. The third chamber is for the return pump. I keep the water level in the refug, and the return chambers at approx 8". So the third baffle is placed on the bottom and is 5" tall. The I added egg crate and screen so snails could not crawl into the return section and get into the pump.
One think you want to think about. If you are using an overflow box with a U tube or other type, there is a chance of it loosing its siphon and will stop flowing from the tank to the sump. If that happens, your return pump is going to continue pumping water from the sump into the tank and if there is too much water in the return section, it will overflow your tank. So what you want to do, is figure how much water it will take to fill the tank to the very top and try to make the return section small enough so the amount of water in it will not exceed the amount it will take to fill the tank to the top.
If you tank is drilled and has a built in overflow its not as much of an issue, unless a BIG snail gets into it and clogs it up.

Are you using an over flow box?

 

[doug onion]

Thanks everyone, U guys really knw what ur talkn about im glad i finally asked, n dnt just try. Yeah i was unclear on how it would work to keep my parameters n line with out a filter persay.i dnt knw if i needed pumps to make flow thru the sand er whatever but with all the help and pics i think i"ll b able to construct somthing once i get some time off. i'll let you knw how it goes.. Thanks all for ur patience with my lack of knowledge. I'll keep reading and ask about anything else im unclear aboyut. thanks for makin me feel at home

 

[Derbird]

Thanks everyone, U guys really knw what ur talkn about im glad i finally asked, n dnt just try. Yeah i was unclear on how it would work to keep my parameters n line with out a filter persay.i dnt knw if i needed pumps to make flow thru the sand er whatever but with all the help and pics i think i"ll b able to construct somthing once i get some time off. i'll let you knw how it goes.. Thanks all for ur patience with my lack of knowledge. I'll keep reading and ask about anything else im unclear aboyut. thanks for makin me feel at home

Never be afraid to ask a question even if you think it might be a silly one I know I could not have been nearly as successful in my reef without my endless questions. We have all been there at one time or another.

 

[pandora32]

True for everyone here!

 

[doug onion]

ipisces do u put anything in ur middle chamber? Im just doing by what i read with sand rock and some sort of plant, i got a 30 gal. tank from somone from wrk so now i can start measuring and really planing. I have friday off so im gonna try reading more on here cuz i"ll have time. Thnks again

 

[user 26995]

I do have some rock in it along with macro algae.
No sand. You have to be able to clean it out and you cant siphon it. I use a turkey baster and suck the detritus out with it. If I feel like it needs a real good cleaning, I take the shop vac to it and remove all the water and clean it out. Cant do that with sand in it. If you had a separate tank up off the floor, or a hob refugium, you should use a deep sand bed.

 

[doug onion]

sorry i correct myself i got a 20 gal from dude at work. U think i would be better of with out sand? Im planning on starting a 20 gal. reef tank. But i still gotta research the lighting i"ll need to support coral, which im completly lost,but thats a different project

 

[doug onion]

sorry i correct myself i got a 20 gal from dude at work. U think i would be better of with out sand? Im planning on starting a 20 gal. reef tank. But i still gotta research the lighting i"ll need to support coral, which im  completly lost,but thats a different project

 

[pandora32]

I have a dsb in sump/fuge. I like having sand in it. I also have a bit of rock,@ 30 pounds or so. I have cheato in it also. The dsb gives you diversity with all the processing bacteria. Having sand also has the benefit of placing some corals you frag to a plug a place to grow a bit without snails and hermit crabs crawling on them, i guess you can do that with eggcrate also. I have so many critters in my sand, sometimes i think my fuge is in better shape than my display.

 

[doug onion]

Thanks pandora32. I thinkim gonna go with the sand. Jus cuz i've read more about ppl using it then not. I all most got it built jus have to do the one off the bottom, wanted to let the others set first so i dnt nock them. Then it's time to grow my critters. i got some shrooms the other day n their doing great, hadto get somthing.