University of Washington aquarium hobbyist preference study

Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum

Help Support Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum:

breckie

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
7
Location
Seattle
Hello everyone,
I am a UW student conducting a study on hobbyist preference in the marine aquarium industry. I joined the club last fall, but I have only been able to attend one meeting since then due to my current work schedule. Last November, Reed was kind enough to answer a few questions for me. I was hoping to post them here to get a better idea of what trade related issues are important to you. I should be getting an occassional Saturday off in the future, and I look forward to meeting you then. Please feel free to leave your comments here, or to email them to me directly at breckmc [at] u.washington [dot] edu. Thanks a lot!

1) Do most people tend to buy their ornamentals online or locally?
2) What are your personal opinions about online purchases?
3) What qualities do you look for in a good aquarium store?
4) What species tend to be more popular and why?
5) What is the difficulty to run a reef style or marine tank when compared to a freshwater system?
6) ...Any other issues you care to discuss?

Thanks again, I look forward to your response!
Breckie
 
Hi there Breckie.

I am curious, what major/class/or study you are doing this for :)
I hope I can give my thoughts on this when I have some time.

Best,
Ilham
 
Sure, I am an undergraduate (Junior) in Aquatic and Fishery science. I actually am writing an article for the Secretariat of the Pacific Community Live Reef Fish bulletin. So far most of the articles in this bulletin convey the perspective of science and academia on issues related to the trade, for that reason I want to know what is important to the hobbyist and how this impacts the industry. I presented this research at the Marine Ornamentals conference this last February in Las Vegas and I am now finalizing everything for (my first!) publication. Thanks, let me know if you have any more questions.
 
1. I've been involved in 3 online group purchases. I currently will only support captive bred or coral frags from breeders and/or local sources.

2. In my limited experience with purchaseing online, I have never had a bad experience. Good specimens arived healthy and at reasonable prices. As far as my oppions goes, we need to be supporting our LFS's. They are too valuable of a resource to loose, perticularly for the entry level hobbiest.

3. Knowledgeable staff. Tank raised/CB livestock. Frags.

4. What species is popuar is a tough question. For fish I would have to say clowns are something I see in most every tank. Gobys and dragonettes seem to roaming around most every larger tank. Damsels are very common fish to start with. Tough call as far as what the most popular fish would be.

As far as corals go, I think zooanthids are something you see in 9/10 tanks. Leathers of some type also seem to be in most everyones tank that isnt dedicated to SPS.

5) Aside from initial setup being more complex, and building a calcium reactor for each of my tanks, I think reefkeeping is less maintence. When I did the cichlid thing (just recently finally stopped), I had to change water and scrape algae that the plecos missed. I also had to feed at least every other day, or they would eat whoever the runt at the time happened to be (likely a species only problem). With my reefs, I can feel comfortable leaving them unattended for much longer periods of time due to the natural food production occuring. I also dont have to do those nasty/messy waterchanges anymore, which I never enjoyed about freshwater. No nussicance algae growth in my reefs either, and I never found a solution to algae in freshwater.

So, I would have to say difficulty is less with a reef than with agressive freshwater. Now, I know a guy with a planted freshwater tank that also requires nothing more than an occasional feeding (over 100 small tropical fish in a 60gal), requires no waterchanges, and grows no pest algae. So, that freshwater setup may be easier than my reefkeeping.

6) My comments.

Reefkeeping used to be a bunch of work. I setup my tank like the LFS recomended I should. Got the top skimmer they recomended, bought the filters and chemicals they recomended, bought and regularly changed carbon etc. Every week I had to scrape a film off the glass, and phosphates were always dectable, detritus was always accumulateing on the rocks and things, and the overall tank was a bunch of work, and minimal performance. I used waterchanges to keep phosphates down, which took time and money, and never really made a difference. If I ever overfed, my tank would register NO3 and more PO4 and sometimes algae blooms or other unwanted effects occured. Sometimes algae blooms just occured totally out of the blue.

After I did some of my own thinking, and went to natural method, I have never loved the hobby more. A sump/fuge/whatever with strong correct lighting and a wad of chaetomorpha algae had been my reefkeeping salvation. A complete ecosystem processes nutrients/detritus/food down to lower energy states each time its consumed. It eventually ends up in some form with the algae can absorb and bind in the form of new growth. The mass of the algae increases very rapidly (depends exactly on my feeding level). When the algae is growing up out of the fuge/sump, I harvest about 3/4th of it and trade it to LFSs or provide it free to members on this board. This is the entire filtration/nutrient control setup no more equipment besides lights, maxi-jet powerheads, and a DIY yeast and sugar powered calcium reactor.

After switching to this method, I never see detritus, I never get pest algaes, SPS corals, clams, and other things all maintain exellent color and grow rapidly, and I get a happy feeling from watching the tanks.

Minimum work/$ in - Maximum enjoyment out

With my status-quo reefkeeping method, it was more like this

Many hours of work and lots of expence in - Sotra decent results, but nothing that was ever beyond average
 
Last edited:
Hey Breckie,

1) Do most people tend to buy their ornamentals online or locally?
I would say that in my case I try to buy locally whenever possible, but often times the more unique fish/corals that I look for are either not available locally or are priced so out of whach with online that I go online. I always try the LFS first though.

2) What are your personal opinions about online purchases?
I think it's best to support the LFS whenever reasonably possible. Online purchases carry the risk of DOA, stress, and takes away from the LFS business. There are times (less common fish/coral) when it makes sense from a price and availability standpoint.

3) What qualities do you look for in a good aquarium store?
High quality products, knowledgeable staff, healthy tanks and livestock, reasonable pricing. Since I was involved in running the local club I also look to LFS that sponsor the club first.

4) What species tend to be more popular and why?
For fish in a reef tank it would be clowns, yellow tangs, chromis. For fish only I would say snowflake eels, triggerfish, various angels, and tangs. As for the popularity reasons, well, in reefs it tends to be two fold: the Nemo effect usually gets the clowns and blue tang in the tank....then the rest tend to be based on their use in the tank (i.e. algae grazers).

For corals it really depends on experience level and preference. New folks tend to get soft corals like leathers, zoanthids, and mushrooms. This is because they are easy to keep and cost less. A lot of people, as they become more experienced look for new challenges and that is where SPS come into the picture. SPS seem to be colored by difficulty. The prettier they are the more difficult they are to care for.

5) What is the difficulty to run a reef style or marine tank when compared to a freshwater system?
I have to agree with Luke here. I think my reef is much easier to keep than any of my freshwater setups (and I did fish only FW, planted tanks, african cichlids, south american cichlids, and various other setups over the years). I skim a lot and so weekly water changes. I run carbon all the time and that is about it. No real algae problems, some diatoms on the glass, but that is good food for the corals when I scrape.

6) ...Any other issues you care to discuss?
The biggest difficulty people have with saltwater tanks is getting past the sticker shock of the initial setup. A lot of people think they can cut corners on equipment and come out OK, but quickly become frustrated and quit when their tanks get over run with algae. The other big problem is patience....people don't realize that it takes time to have a nice tank , no matter how much money you plug in...it still takes time to cycle the tank. You will get algae blooms...even in a stable tank...it happens. you will have setbacks...count on it. It's very satisfying most of the time, but frustrating some of the time too. And finally, there are many many many ways to have a successful tank. Keep an open mind, take it all in, and decide on the style that fits your lifestyle/thinking best....don't waste time criticizing others unless they are looking for constructive criticism.
 
Reed is usually right on the money!

Breckie,
The meetings are usually on the third Saturday of the month. I know its not set in stone because of speakers availability or vendors, etc. But I look forward to seeing you hanging out and learning from you.
1. I prefer to see my fish before purchase, unless I know seller and feel comfortable.
2. I have to agree with Reed. The shipping procedure is why fish are so expensive at times. Its hard to predict what will happen in shipping process.
3. When I visit a store. I like to watch how staff bag fish. If there are any dead fish in tanks. How they acclimate fish upon arrival. The equiptment they are using to maintain fishes health. I also feel easier about giving money to people that support clubs or societies. Its like putting stock back into your self by supporting each other.
4. This is why I recommend going and visiting other aquariums. We learn which fish can possilby adapt to other fish. We learn which fish will eat what or why its territorial. Each Fish has a personality or job. I believe people with Corals need to learn which fish can possibly eat their fish, invertebrates,
the mating technics and possibility of corals being damaged. How fish establish territory and what you can do to confuse fish. When people learn which fish are compatible with what things usually work for the best.
If you have a tank with corals, you want a fish that is Reef Safe, does not damage your corals.
If you want a preditor tank. In my oppinion, groupers, Large Angels, large Triggers,barracuda, You will have to be experience to learn which fish could possibly eat the other fish. So size is importance, if fish has been fed live food, I would also look at fish to see if he had been agressive towards other fish in same aquarium or ask why he is alone, ask questions from seller. Its a lottery when you buy a fish that could possibly eat another fish. When possible I like to introduce two fish or more to a esstablish colony. I do this to confuse the other fish. I feel the more distractions, the aggresive fish will tend to wear him self out. Adding fish you take a chance of stressing the fish you have and especially the weaker new fish.
Ok, back to question. I feel Large Angelfish, Surgeon Fish (Tangs) Clownfish, and smaller colorful wrasse, anthias are most desired to view in aquariums.
5. I feel that freshwater set ups are more likely to carry deseases more readily than saltwater.
Any fish may it be Saltwater or Freshwater is sensitive to PH and temperature, amonia, nitrates. stress related to travel or Post tramadic shock(fish looks fine but dies a few days later because of stress induced from transport, handling). The confusion that people have often in my oppinon is preparing the water. Saltwater for example, People tend to shy away because of salinity. Salinity changes due to evaporation. People tend to over react. If they want to fix this, they can test their salinity. Make a marker line on aquarium or tape a line on aquarium and watch the line as water evaporates, fill it with RO/DI water to same level. But alway check your salinity. That extra step adds fear into people. You always need to due water changes in either set up.
The prices of equiptment for Saltwater filters tend to scare people. The lighting for growing corals is more exspensive.
But people tend to forget to do a water change properly.
Saltwater you never want to mix salt inside the tank with animals. This causes shock due to salinity levels raised too fast. Premix your saltwater in a bucket with powerhead and heater to same parameters as aquaium you are adding water to. Its a few more steps for Saltwater.
Water still needs to be treated in Freshwater to provide same temperature and PH.:)
But both temperature and Ph in Saltwater and Freshwater are contributing factors in fishes health.
People need to get past the bacterial cycle of freshwater or saltwater aquariums.
6. I agree with Reed. Its easy, I can read his thread before mine..cheers Reed. People are subject to error because of changes made too quickly.
Let the tank set up build bacteria, prevent areas for build up of waste, keep water moving, wait for 8 weeks or more for bacteria to cycle inside your aquarium. Do small changes, a filter change one day. Then do a water change the next. Changes create stress on animals.
Learn what food your fish desires, which food is healthy for your fish to maintain his health. Monitor your temperature and PH often or always.
Support your local Salwater Club, build a good relationship with people that support the hobby(vendors), they support you. Treat people the way you would like to be treated...ok, back under my rock.
psst, again its easy to say this because I read Reeds thread, I trust Reed. I have learned a lot from Reed. Cheers Reed:)
 
breckie said:
1) Do most people tend to buy their ornamentals online or locally?
2) What are your personal opinions about online purchases?
3) What qualities do you look for in a good aquarium store?
4) What species tend to be more popular and why?
5) What is the difficulty to run a reef style or marine tank when compared to a freshwater system?
6) ...Any other issues you care to discuss?

1. i too tend to buy locally, for quality reasons as well as supporting the local lfs, but i will occasionally purchase hard to find specimens from the internet.
2. i have no problem with them as long as they are with reputable businesses.
3. quality equipment used to maintain the health of the livestock in the store, the stocking of high quality dry goods instead of the cheap crap they get good deals on, appropriate quaranine of livestock(which doesnt occure at ANY of the seattle area lfs), knowledgable staff that are friendly(again, in very short supply, i can count the "professional" sales reps at lfs on my fingers, the rest shouldnt be giving people advice at all), fair and competative pricing.
4. vastly too individual for me to make a blanket statement, but typically you have livestock that is popular with beginners (damsels, clowns, tangs, simple, cheap soft corals; zenia, capnella, zoanthids, mushrooms)
and livestock that is popular with adept reefkeepers (lps, sps, clams, anemones, and ornate fish requiring specialized care and/or biotopes).
5. i'd say with the advent of modern technology and methodology that expense is predominately the key difference between fresh and saltwater systems.
6. i agree with reed, it is far too common that beginners dont do enough research, dont buy the appropriate gear, and dont practice sound maintenance technique, and then they cant figure out why their tank is more work than fun, and not stable. the other thing people seem to forget is that even a year old reef is still infantile, and that nothing can replace the stability that only time and experience can bring.
 
Last edited:
breckie said:
Thanks for all the great responses everyone! Quick question, what do sps and lps stand for?

SPS. Small Polyp Stonies...thats the stonie structured coral with small polyps. Acroporadae

LPS. Long Polyp Stonies...Examples would be Hammer corals, Torch corals, etc.

enjoy,
Ed:)
 
Hey Breckie,

Got time for one more? I’ve only had my reef tank up and running about a year now and I’ve not been in the freshwater tank scene. So I think that I get to qualify as the “Newbie.”

1) Do most people tend to buy their ornamentals online or locally?

I’m currently at half and half. All of the fish that I currently have in my tank and have had in my tank in the past were purchased at a LFS. (Local Fish Store) But I’ve got some fishes in quarantine that are part of a group buy online.

2) What are your personal opinions about online purchases?

I agree with sentiments thusly shared here. I wouldn’t have gotten any books or have attempted to find a local marine club without the advice/insistence of a salesperson at the LFS. That being said, most of the ‘hardware’ that I buy does come from online vendors, but not Ebay!

3) What qualities do you look for in a good aquarium store?

The first thing I look for is a ‘display tank.’ The one that everyone points to and says, ‘you can have this in your house!’ Depending on what I see in there and the health of the inhabitants will color my perspective for the rest of my stay.

4) What species tend to be more popular and why?

I would have to go with Centropyge angles, the ‘pygmy’ angles; the Zebrasoma tangs; and the Amblygobius fishes. The reasons why are varied as the fish themselves but most of the time, it is because they are touted as being ‘reef-safe.’ And they eat algae!

5) What is the difficulty to run a reef style or marine tank when compared to a freshwater system?

N/A: I’ve not owed a freshwater tank since the fifth grade.

6) ...Any other issues you care to discuss?

I love ReefFrontiers! The information exchange here and in other Reef Communities is what I believe has really contributed to the popular explosion of ‘reef-keeping’ and will continue to serve as a powerful tool to dispel myth-information and pass along valuable experiences of others that used to be the domain of researchers and hard-core enthusiasts.
 
Back
Top