Unorthodox ways to do things

[Scooterman]

I have a problem with this as Unorthodox, I think it is a load of crap!

Really, all of the things you've posted you call Unorthodox but really way back when there was and to this day no right or wrong way of doing things so what you call Unorthodox is really the norm. The only difference between what you do that you call Unorthodox and what is done these days is derived through learning what actually is going on, so the "New way of doing things" came form all of the "Unorthodox" things done in the past, just more refined, modernized from learning, science, experiments and experience.
So with that said I say Hogwash to Unorthodox as that was normal and to this day I believe If it works for you then there is no law that says you can't do what you enjoy, right or wrong isn't this issue as if you like & enjoy it, then however you do it is great. Do I suggest that everyone does it your way or any other way in particular, no. The key here is what we have these days is experience, knowledge and science to help understand why things happen the way they do and why we change the way we do things to get more out of them, If your going for a particular look, difficult level of coral keeping or whatever someone would desire.
:yo:

Don't take this the wrong way Paul, that isn't the intention of my post.

 

[Krish]

You are pretty much spot on Scooty with my first post. I think it's through advances in the hobby through research, experiments and testing, people have found easier/better ways to do things which enabled them to be more successful in the hobby and move forward progressing from old methods of reefkeeping. There are some things that work just fine "old school" and as you put it, if it works then why change it, but i feel in most cases, I'd say it's best to advance along with the hobby as it progresses and moves forward. I tried to think of what I did that was unorthodox and quite honestly, I still can't think of anything lol.


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[Paul B]

Don't take this the wrong way Paul, that isn't the intention of my post.

Scoot, I would never take anything the wrong way. It's a fish site. :spider:I named "this" thread unorthodox because IMO, most of the members of these forums are young and never heard of some of these things. It is only un orthodox to them.
I just thought it would be interesting to post about things other than the normal posts like
"OMG I got hair algae"
"OMG I got ich"
"OMG I got nitrate"
"OMG my manta ray in my nano died"
etc. :yo:

people have found easier/better ways to do things which enabled them to be more successful in the hobby and move forward progressing from old methods of reefkeeping.

Not in all cases. Many people still can't keep fish for their normal lifespan no matter how much technology improves. Thats because a lot of people are caught up in Google and the internet and have lost the desire to experiment.

 

[IPisces]

I'm with you Paul. These things might not be "un orthodox", but they sure are great stories. It is also a little bit of a learning experience for us younger reefers.

 

[Scooterman]

Scoot, I would never take anything the wrong way. It's a fish site. :spider:I named "this" thread unorthodox because IMO, most of the members of these forums are young and never heard of some of these things. It is only un orthodox to them.
I just thought it would be interesting to post about things other than the normal posts like
"OMG I got hair algae"
"OMG I got ich"
"OMG I got nitrate"
"OMG my manta ray in my nano died"
etc. :yo:



Not in all cases. Many people still can't keep fish for their normal lifespan no matter how much technology improves. Thats because a lot of people are caught up in Google and the internet and have lost the desire to experiment.

I understand the idea Paul, People as in "newbies" do what your saying not fully understanding. I have to agree/not agree on the fish thing. I think people can easily extend the life of a fish in captivity and I know some have done that many yeas over the fish normal life span. The issue your saying about not being able to keep them that long is more of will the fish keeper do what is necessary long term to keep them that long? I think the dedication to the hobby can be the main cause of fish loss. JMO though!:shock:

 

[Paul B]

I think the dedication to the hobby can be the main cause of fish loss. JMO though!

I agree with you big time Scoot. To me this is just a way of life and I never lived a day of my life without a fish tank of some kind so I mistakenly assume that all people think this way, but of course I am way off with that. The vast majority of hobbiests leave the hobby after a few years and do something else. I do plenty of other things also but for some reason I still have a love for fish tanks and I will have one until I get too old to appreciate it. It is just there and almost no work or cost for me. If I have time I change some water. If I don't have time, the fish don't eat that day. When I get the urge, I remove rocks and move them around or buy a coral, or frag something, or change a light, or add a surface skimmer or build a chiller, or collect amphipods. It is all part of the hobby and as long as we realize it is a "hobby" and not really important, we will not have any problems.
I also have a boat and it is very costly and produces a lot of work for me but that too is a Hobby and when it becomes too costly or when the "work" starts to really feel like work, I sell the thing because it too is a hobby and no one really needs a boat, or fish tank.

 

[Paul B]

I don't know how all of you guys top off your water but being I started this thread I will get into it a little the way I do it.
I guess you figured out that I like to build and modify things. My top off system is totally automatic and I only have to touch it every year or so.
I hung this (blue) bucket from the ceiling in my workshop so it is higher than my reef. The water flows to the RO unit through an electric valve. As long as the valve is energized, water flows. From the RO unit below the bucket, it flows to the acrylic DI to the left of the bucket. From there it enters the bucket. As the bucket fills, it raises the float which is a film container connected to that pink string. The string is connected to an old thermostat mercury switch so that when the water rises, the float rises lifting the mercury switch which shuts off power to the electric valve and the water to the RO stops. The bucket stays filled.
There is also a tube coming out near the top of the bucket in case this arrangement fails and the overflow would go down a drain, but that has never happened.
There is a PVC hose running from the bottom of the bucket, over my ceiling about 25' to another acrylic container on the tank with more DI resins and from there to a float switch on the tank.
This arrangement is designed to only supply water to the tank at about a drop every 3 seconds. The tank normally only needs a drop every five seconds so in the event the float switch gets stuck (which also has never happened) it would take a few days before the tank would overflow and it would only overflow a few drops an hour.
Under the tank is a DIY overflow safety switch which consists of a wire from a GFCI receptacle. The pumps on the tank are plugged into that GFCI so if there is a leak, the GFCI would trip off, shutting down the pumps.
I am sure everyone on here uses the same system.

Float switch

 

[Krish]

Not in all cases. Many people still can't keep fish for their normal lifespan no matter how much technology improves. Thats because a lot of people are caught up in Google and the internet and have lost the desire to experiment.

Would you say that you do Paul using your "un-orthodox methods?" If so, what would you say you do differently that allows you to keep fish longer than most people? On that same token, who's to say people aren't keeping fish close to their normal life span? I mean just because someone doesn't post they've had a fish "X" amount of years doesn't necessarily mean people aren't doing it. I know Chuck (MtnDewMan) at one point told me he had a clown pair that were over 20 years old. I know I've never kept a fish for it's normal life span and this is not because I couldn't or they died on me because I hardly ever lost a fish. My fish IMO, were very healthy living in a great environment but I got caught up in too many tank swaps. I changed tanks about 4 times in the space of 2 years. Eventually, as the tanks got smaller, I had to get rid of some fish. Also, I like to get new fish sometimes so I'd get rid of some fish to get new fish so someone like me probably would never have a fish long enough to see if infact they'd live close to a normal lifespan. What happens with me may happen to a lot of people in addition to people just getting rid of fish because they eventually get too big for their tank. The advantage I think you have over most people though is the fact that you don't change up much. You've been running the same tank for ages probably never changing it up much. I personally however feel that people can keep fish close to their life expectancy depending on what type of fish they have in addition to tank size.

On a side note, you gave me a good idea for a poll so I think I'll set that up now. A poll how long people have kept a single fish.

 

[Krish]

Here's that poll if you'd like to check it out or anyone for that matter http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums...me-frame-you-have-had-single-fish-live-62719/

 

[Paul B]

Would you say that you do Paul using your "un-orthodox methods?" If so, what would you say you do differently that allows you to keep fish longer than most people?

Krish, I didn't say everyone. I was replying to the statement that because of technology we can keep fish longer. (or something like that)
I actually think I do keep fish for their normal lifespan. Like you I almost never lose a fish to natural causes. They do have accidents where something is spawning and it chases another fish out of the tank. I recently lost a long nose butterfly like that and I have lost a few mandarins in either my overflow or from a missing powerhead strainer but they just about never die from a disease.
My oldest fish was a brutlyd or cusk eel that I lost in an accident while I was away on a family emergency. My Mother went into a coma and I had to be there a few days. (she died)
That fish was 18 years old. I don't know how long he would have lived if this did not happen. In the same tank with him was a 5 year old moorish Idol and about an 8 year old mandarin. The fire clown lived and he is now about 17. I, like you also give away fish if they get too large or I just want something else. I just gave away a dragon wrasse, foxface and boxfish.
I don't think un orthodox methods have anything to do with fish longivity but I do feel that the diet I give my fish allows them to live a long healthy life and I have no hospital or quarantine tank. My fish are in breeding condition from their diet that is supplimented with live worms, new born brine shrimp and fish oil which thay get every day.
Fish that are not in spawning condition are not healthy at all. All fish spawn continousely. Of course in a captive envirnment many fish will not spawn. Fish like tangs and angels most likely will not spawn in a small tank but all damsels and most bottom dwelling fish should be spawning or making spawning jestures. For instance my fireclown constantly cleans a nest even though he has not spawned in a few years. My female fireclown I think became a male and they now fight because that fish also maintains a nest.
I only have a female bluestripe pipefish because the male died after about 3 years of constant spawning. Pipefish, like seahorses, especially the small variety do not have a very long lifespan.
My 10 or 12 year old Watchman gobies spawned for their entire adult lifespan. The female recently died. I am not sure what their lifespan is but because she was spawning, I know she was healthy.
You are correct that most people probably do not post how long they have kept a fish but we can read volumes about fish that have died from disease after a few weeks or months. Fish in a tank should almost never get sick.
IMO as I said it is about diet and specifically oil. Fish oil is severly lacking in a captive fishes diet and it is a major percentage of a wild fishes diet. If you do any diving you will see reef fish feasting a few times a day on fry that cover the lower areas of all reefs. Fry are almost all oil. Also most fish eat other smaller fish. Whole fish with bones, guts, scales, blood and all. All of these things are needed for a fish and it is the reason fish do not eat just fillets. Most of the nutrition is in the guts. Thats why I feed whole, live worms and clams. When we feed clams, we are feeding the entire animal, guts and all. Squid, scallop and shrimp are not as good a food because they lack almost everything because we are only feeding the mussel and not the guts. If we could feed a whole scalop, shrimp or squid, that would be much better but those animals in the sizes we need them are not commercially available. Some fish practically live on baby "whole" shrimp along with whole baby squid, octopus and fish.
This is just my opinion of course. Maybe fish would be better off on a diet of Oreo cookies but I am not sure.
It is only from my personal experience keeping and swimming with these things.

Watchman gobi tending her eggs

16 year old fireclown

I lost this pair of hermit crabs at age 13

Seahorses transfering eggs in my reef.

Male blue devil over his nest of eggs in my reef circa 1972

 

[Krish]

Sorry to hear about your mom...

As for feeding the fish, I would have to agree that a good diet helps a lot with longevity by feeding a variety of foods depending on the fish. Some fish will however do well on a simple diet. I had freshwater angelfish for eg that accepted flake food over anything i tried and floating pellets (sometimes) that laid eggs every few months. I had two pairs and they always laid eggs and I've had them even hatch. Eventually I sold them with the tank, but had them from the size of a us quarter.


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[IPisces]

My FW fish get fed the samething as my SW fish do. Their colors are just vibrant too. I had bosemani rainbows spawn and actually saved three fry to full grown before I gave them away. When I found them I seperated them from the rest of the community with vinyl window screen in the same tank. They were so tiny, a few of them got thru, and eaten I'm sure, but managed to keep 3.
It was pretty cool.

 

[Paul B]

For some reason freshwater fish can live a long time and spawn even on a diet of oatmeal.

 

[bradr]

Keeping SPS w/ just a kalk reactor.

 

[Paul B]

Keeping SPS w/ just a kalk reactor.

Keeping SPS with no reactors :smokin: